Temple Bound
God's children are searching in greater numbers for answers and hoping for miracles as they look to Jesus Christ for relief. On 'Temple Bound,' hosted by Will Humphreys, explore how temples offer not just solace but also powerful tools for navigating these turbulent times through faith in Jesus Christ.
Tune in every Monday to hear Will Humphreys engage with guests who bring inspiring stories, profound teachings, and insights into accessing divine guidance through temple service.
Each episode promises to enrich your understanding and strengthen your connection to the Savior in unique and transformative ways.
Whether you're seeking answers, yearning for peace, or in need of a miracle, 'Temple Bound' is your weekly spiritual refuge, helping you anchor your soul to the Savior. Join us on this sacred journey to deepen your faith and discover the blessings of temple worship.
Temple Bound
Understanding the Last Temple Interview Question with Curtis Keller
Transformative Power of Temple Teachings with Curtis Keller
In this episode, Curtis Keller shares profound insights on temple recommend worthiness, emphasizing that it’s not about perfection but about embracing an ongoing spiritual journey. Through his experiences, Curtis helps reframe the often-intimidating question, "Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord’s house?" as an opportunity for grace and growth rather than an unattainable standard.
Key Takeaways:
- Understand how temple worthiness is about progress, not perfection, and how grace plays a crucial role.
- Discover the liberating truth that salvation comes through Christ’s achievements, not just our efforts.
- Gain insights from the Book of Mormon, Elder Kieran, and Elder Renlund on embracing both divine grace and personal responsibility.
- Learn when to seek priesthood counsel and how to recognize and reject adversarial influences.
- Follow President Nelson’s counsel on regular temple attendance to deepen your connection with the Savior.
Hello and welcome back to another episode of Temple Bound, and thank you so much for taking the time out of your busy schedule to learn about the temple and its promised blessings. Today's guest is Curtis Keller. Curtis Keller, right out of the gate, wants to make it perfectly clear that temple worthiness is not perfection, so much so that we're spending the entire episode today only talking about one of the Temple Recommend interview questions. It's the last one. It's the one that everyone struggles with the most, from a place of just trying to understand how to answer that from a place of integrity and still know that they're able, and so this episode's going to be really powerful. We're going to dive deep into that question and it's going to open up a number of discussions around worthiness and how we perceive our relationship with the Savior. Enjoy the show, all right. So, curtis, thank you so much for being on the show today. Let's go ahead and kick off the disclaimer, please.
Speaker 2:Okay, I just want to make it clear that, as we talk today, these are my opinions. They're not opinions of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Really it's Not Opinions of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Really is a conversation between you and I about a recommend question and a talk I gave in church. So again, my opinions. What I state today based on my research and not opinions of the church or in my capacity as a member of the state presidency.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and it's funny because today's episode is all about one question. I think it's such a fun idea, for today's episode is all about one question. I think it's such a fun idea for today's episode is discussing one question in the Temple. Recommend interview that you have held. How many times, curtis?
Speaker 2:Hundreds, if not thousands. I mean, I've been asking those questions since 2010. So with maybe a two-year break in there, but yeah.
Speaker 1:And answering them before that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a good point.
Speaker 1:So you've asked these questions about just out of curiosity. Do you have them all like locked and loaded memory-wise?
Speaker 2:I do, I'm all memorized.
Speaker 1:I mean, and that's just you know, you say them so many times that Well, the question we're going to be talking about today is the last one in the interview, and I am so excited about today's episode because you wrote a talk about just this one question in a state conference. So would you mind talking about what that question is and what inspired you to even write a talk about it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. That question is now the 16th question Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord's house and participate in temple ordinances? And I think there's two bases of inspiration for this. The talk All my life I feared that question, you know.
Speaker 2:Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord's house and participate in temple ordinance as well? How am I worthy? I mean, what have I ever done to merit going into God's holy house, right, where no unclean thing can enter, right? I mean, there's no unclean thing can enter His holy house. And he says that in the scriptures. And so I was always like am I being pompous, am I being arrogant, am I being presumptive, by saying, oh yeah, I can go to the Lord's house? But then, after asking this question hundreds of times, seeing the reaction of people who I know and love, they're like I don't know. I hate this question, I don't even know how to answer that. Like, am I supposed to say I'm worthy to enter the Lord's house when I'm a fallen person, you know? And so I continued over and over to get this, probably at least half the time, when people, when I asked that question, people say you know, I don't know, not that they don't know.
Speaker 2:They consider they're doing what they need to do, but it's a big question.
Speaker 1:It's uncomfortable for them.
Speaker 1:They're sitting there hearing this question as a place of like, stating their worthiness as it pertains to being able to go into the presence of the Lord's house.
Speaker 1:I get it and it's interesting because a previous guest of ours, dennis Deaton, he's a of the Lord's house. I get it and it's interesting because a previous guest of ours, dennis Deaton, he's a what's it called A stake patriarch and he was talking a lot about how the adversary leverages these thoughts in our world around worthiness and he talks a lot about how, when in our episode about going to the temple, how it's very much an act of resistance that he provides mentally to whether or not we're worthy to go. And obviously, if there's someone that has something to clear up with a priesthood authority, obviously that's different. But we're talking about the person who doesn't have anything they feel like they need to bring to a priesthood leader, who is going through their normal, imperfect way of life, having that resistance. Tell them something about it. I think what's interesting about the question and the resistance people have on it is that it's more indicative of what's telling, of how we relate to ourselves.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And like how we view ourselves, because again, we've got this adversary who's constantly saying you're not good enough, You're not worth enough. Oh, you had those indecent thoughts or you said that thing. That's a lie. You are never, ever going to be capable or able of entering into the Lord's house. So, like I see why people say that, I think I'm one of those people in your interviews who's like yeah, I don't know, Curtis, I'm doing the best I can and so, yeah, you've just seen that a lot. Is that the most typical answer? Or yes.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, half the time the people are like I don't know how to answer that question. It's so hard I don't like coming to this question, and so that was really the genesis of it. And people answering that way and all of them say yes, that are worthy to get that recommend right, but they're hesitant. There's a little trepidation there and I think the biggest thing is that they don't want to take credit. And so, yeah, I'm worthy Of course I am, I'm worthy to go to the temple.
Speaker 2:And so I had a great experience with somebody I won't say their name because I don't have permission to say their name, but this was about a month before state conference and maybe two months, and I had, through my study, had concluded that we absolutely one of the joys of the gospel of Jesus Christ is that we can answer yes to this question with joy and happiness. Okay, confidence, confidence. There you go. Yeah, because of Jesus Christ. Of course we're not worthy to go to the temple, but because of Jesus Christ we absolutely can say yes to the 16th question, and only because of Jesus Christ. There's nothing Kurt Keller's done that make it so I can go into that temple, because no unclean thing can enter into the kingdom of God and we're all fallen man. So I, eventually, I would start saying to people of course you can say yes because of Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2:And then I had this one brother who I respect greatly. I asked him that question do you consider yourself worthy? And he says yes because of and through the grace of Jesus Christ. That was his answer. Yes, that was his answer. He said yes only because of the grace of Jesus Christ.
Speaker 1:I totally feel that. I love that.
Speaker 2:No, and I was like that is so awesome because that's what I tell people and that's what, through my just, my study and my ponder and my prayer, I'm like that question is actually an opportunity for us to look at ourselves in our own fallen state. It's an opportunity to say are you worthy to enter the Lord's house? Well, no, but yes, because of Jesus Christ, you know. And so when he said that, I was like that is awesome and it just I had been thinking about giving a talk at state conference just on that question. Then I heard you know, heard a conference talk by Elder Kieran about this is a church of joy, and I realized that we can joyfully and confidently answer that question because of the grace of Jesus Christ. And that's it and it helps us. That question helps us sit back and look at ourselves and then say I can't do this on my own, I need Jesus, and he's the one that enables me to say yes to that question.
Speaker 1:I feel so inspired when I hear that, because it is something that you quote in your talk as covenant confidence. Yes, covenant confidence is how you put it. Yeah, and to me it's almost like permission to separate out these negative voices that are coming from the adversary, trying to constantly highlight every wrong thing we've done and compare us against others who no one else has ever done, the horrible things that I've done, kind of thing, and it allows us to go. No, it's not about me, it's about the Savior. It's almost like listening to Ammon talking in the book of Alma, when he comes back and he's reunited with his brothers and he's like look what we did, look what we've done.
Speaker 1:And they're like hey, man, you're starting to boast a little bit. He's like only because I'm boasting in my God. He's like look at me, is there anything with God that we can't do? It's like I'm not boasting. So I almost think, like everything else with the adversary. So I almost think like everything else with the adversary, he speaks in lies. So the lie is yeah, you're worthy to go, but you should feel really borderline guilty about going forward Versus. The truth is that we should be able to stand and smile and say, because of the Savior, I am absolutely going to make it to the temple. Because of what he did for me even me, I can say definitely I'm able to come to the temple.
Speaker 2:And you know what I love that thought and really when I go to other churches and worship, there's a lot more Jesus talk, yeah, and there's a lot more Jesus, joy Jesus joy, yeah, and I've always wondered why do they feel that way?
Speaker 2:Because, you know, we sometimes say, well, they believe it's grace that we're saved and it's only grace, and we believe there's works in there. And I think that there's a combination. But I think in this sometimes, kurt Keller, I'm not going to speak for the church or anybody, I really focus on works. And then I say, well, I'm not, I can't say yes to number 16 because I haven't done what I need to do. I don't have charity, I don't have meekness, I don't have humility. I got all these things that I'm working on that I can do.
Speaker 2:So how in the heck can I get into the holy house of God? But then, 2 Nephi, 10, 24, wherefore, my beloved brethren, reconcile yourselves to the will of God and not to the will of the devil and the flesh, and remember, after you're reconciled unto God, that it is only in and through the grace of God that you're saved. So, even after you're reconciled to God, you're turning your life over to God. You're only saved by the grace of Jesus Christ. So it doesn't matter what you know, I need to have that covenant. I mean there's three things I say you got to make covenants that bind yourself to God. Right, you got to strive to keep those covenants and then you have to repent. And as long as you're doing those three things, you can joyfully answer yes to that question, because it's not my merits that get me into the temple, it's Christ's.
Speaker 1:Right, and it's interesting because I think, where we hear the Savior mention things like be perfect, even as I am, yeah, we hear that and we don't understand its full meaning. Because if we hear it as a line in the sand of, like a test report grade of yeah, there's perfect, and then there's non-perfect, and you can't come in unless you score perfect yes, it's like yeah, then we're missing. The whole point is that you can't be, you can't enter. It's true, you can't enter the Lord's presence without, unless you're being perfect, but it's perfected in him, and then he's the only reason this whole thing works.
Speaker 2:A hundred percent. I mean 3 Nephi, 27, 19,. And no unclean thing can enter into his kingdom, into the temple. Therefore, nothing entereth into his rest, save it be those who have washed their garments in my blood because of their faith and the repentance of all their sins, and their faithfulness unto the end. And then that scripture 20 goes on to say repent that you may become spotless before me. So like it is about making covenants, striving as hard as we can and then repenting when we make mistakes and always be striving to be like Christ. And then he makes up the rest of it. I mean 2 Nephi, 2,. 8 says that we are saved because of the grace and mercy and merits of Jesus. Merits what is that? Merits are things he's done. That's how I interpret it, kurt Keller's interpretation. We're saved because of the merits of Jesus Christ.
Speaker 1:His accomplishments, not ours. Exactly His acts not ours.
Speaker 2:So when I look at question 16, yes, because Christ made it so I can go to that temple. He made it so I can wash my garments in his blood. He made it so that I can be forgiven of my sins. And that is joy and it should make us so happy when we can look at that question and say I got a lot of problems because I do. And I find myself in that camp that you've said, which is I get down on myself and I get discouraged because I don't have the charity I should, I don't have the meekness, I don't have the humility. But if I'm trying and I'm repenting, christ says I am going to make up for that, my merits will make up for that.
Speaker 1:It's interesting, curtis, that when we go to the temple to receive our endowment, the gift, right, what is the endowment? It's a gift, but what is it a gift of? It's a gift, but what is it a gift of? It's a lot of different types of gifts, but one of the most significant is the gift of knowledge we get. So knowledge is power. So we go to the temple, we get the gift of knowledge. Well, this is one of those knowledge pieces for us that becomes power for us, because when we go to the temple and we receive this knowledge, this light of recognizing why, it's not just okay but we're missing out on a degree of happiness in this life because we're not having that joy in Jesus around celebrating him, not because I earned anything, but because, in despite of myself, because his love is so abundant, I'm able to participate and get these blessings for my kids and grow and everything's going to be okay because of him.
Speaker 1:It's almost like the adversary wants us to not know that part of the equation, that in business they say things like you know, progress, not perfection. I think in the church, because the crisis says be perfect. Maybe that phrase better stated would be progress is perfection, progress is perfection. So if we are just making progress because he is so amazing and what he did was so impossible but he did it anyway for us because of his love we should not only have permission. We should want to just scream it from the rooftops and sing his praises every Sunday with so much gratitude because, yeah, we messed up again this week.
Speaker 1:But, guess what? I'm taking the sacrament again and I get to start over all again because of him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's why I actually now love that question, because now it's a point of reflection and a reminder that I can't get there without Jesus. And that's what should bring all of us joy is that if we've made these covenants that bind us to God and Jesus, we strive to keep them and we repent sincerely repent then there's nothing that is going to stop us. Here's another question. I didn't include this in my talk. Yeah, yeah, are you and President Nelson? What did he talk about last night?
Speaker 2:The second coming is coming, you know, and so you ask yourself this question you die. We have these time-common questions. The last question is do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord's house? Do you think and this is again Kurt Keller will be asked someday, kurt, do you consider yourself worthy to enter the celestial kingdom and receive exaltation? So that's not a lot different than this question, because literally, when we go to the temple, we symbolically pass through the veil and enter the celestial kingdom.
Speaker 2:And so, yeah, and it made me really reflect and say, well, wait a minute. No, because I'm going to be dead and I had this life and I didn't become charitable and I didn't become meek and I didn't perfect myself in this life? Yeah, but it's no different. Like if I can say yes to that question today, then if I die tomorrow and I was asked that question by Jesus Christ, I'd have to say yes, but only only because of Jesus, like I've done nothing to merit that, but only because of Jesus. So that gives me joy and a hope, faith, hope. Hope that because of Jesus, all these problems I have, he's going to help me resolve those. He's going to help me resolve those and he's going to enable me to enter into his holy house, not just in this life but also in the next life. Yeah, because that's how powerful the atonement of Jesus Christ is.
Speaker 1:And that's why it's the first principle you know faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. You know faith for a lot of people can look like a lot of things, but is there no greater thing to have faith in?
Speaker 1:that he would redeem even me, and I just I love that. He is the great equalizer. The adversary wants us constantly on social media to be looking at other people and go oh, I wish I could be as articulate as that guy, or better looking or more successful or whatever. But at the end of the day, there is no one who needs a savior, any more or any less than anyone else.
Speaker 1:We are all relatively I don't want to say a term that's, you know, minimizing like, less than, but it's true we're less than In the sense that, like we can't possibly expect to be able and capable to do what he's done. But what he does care about is our effort. And I think about my kids, man, I think about what you're talking about from a case with my boys and the way that my parents, as experienced grandparents, look at my sons, their imperfect journey, the way that they're firm on what's right and wrong. That's not gray for them. But when my kids make mistakes, it's all about like, well, they need to learn this lesson. And like, as they make any effort, it's like, oh, my goodness, look at that effort and there's so much love and acceptance and joy. It's like, and how much greater is Holy Father to us when we think about how he views our path.
Speaker 1:I just think the adversary I keep going back to the adversary. I think he's trying so hard to keep us thinking that we are worthy on any level. If I have an impure thought, it's like, as Dennis Deaton says, if we have something into our mind, that's an impure thought, I want to steal that thing or whatever. Right, yeah, it's like that's not a bad thing. It's actually an opportunity to become even more righteous and to prove to our Father that we love Him by going yep, I'm moving on from that. And that repentance is just that natural process of constant micro and macro correction against all the things that pull us away from.
Speaker 2:God's will. Satan uses discouragement, depression, despondency. He's constantly trying to tell us we are not worthy to go. The last place he wants us to be is in the temple, the last place. So if he can make us feel as if the atonement doesn't apply to us, or that Jesus somehow will forgive Will's sins but not Kurt's sins, then that is just a recipe for depression and me not feeling like I can get to the temple. He wants to minimize the atonement of Jesus Christ as much as he can and that causes a loss of hope, loss of ability to go to the temple, absolutely.
Speaker 1:I want to say something just briefly to the audience. As you're listening to this, guys, I want you to think about any thought that has entered your mind that's not loving about yourself and just be really clear that that's not from you. We are spirit children of our Holy Father. We are created from the same glory that creates Him, and that glory, in its essence, is perfect. But, being in this world, we are open to receiving influence from the adversary, and so when we hear or feel anything, ever even the slightest degree, that's not loving or positive, I think it's imperative that we look at that as originating from the source of the dark side and taking a stand against that and by looking and finding ways to be with people who love us, because that is so big on how the adversary brings us down.
Speaker 2:Right when you know Elder Kieran in I don't know if it was last conference or the conference before, but he says if you are prone to worry that you will never measure up, or that the loving reach of Christ's infinite atonement mercifully covers everyone else but not you, then you misunderstand. Infinite means infinite. Infinite covers you and those you love. So I love that. I love that talk by Elder Kieran when he says that Christ is in relentless pursuit of us. That's reality, that's truth. Christ wants to save us. God wants to save us. His whole work is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of all of us.
Speaker 1:So, even if we're not perfect, he is and his effort never goes away. One of the things that you said as well earlier that I want to bring back to is this idea of like effort. When we don't understand the relationship between grace and works, you know, we oftentimes open ourselves up to feeling bad about being worthy and again I just feel, feel I have to say again, like if there's something that needs to be cleared up that's not what we're talking about. This is the average person who's worthy?
Speaker 1:to go into the temple who wants to know that they are worthy. Elder Renlund says this after all, we are all struggling in our own way. This is from your talk. None of us earn salvation. We never can. Jacob in the Book of Mormon taught remember after we are reconciled unto God. That's what you said earlier. So just kind of reiterating that again, that we all have to be mindful that our works are just. It's more about understanding what's already presented to us and having the faith to accept it. A gift not accepted is not a gift. Our job is not to create the gift, we have to accept it. That's what our job is. If there's a work, it's accepting the gift and believing in it and having faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Right that first principle.
Speaker 2:Totally. I love that quote. I love that quote by Elder Renlund because we have to be saved by grace. It is the grace of Jesus Christ that ultimately gets us to where we need to be.
Speaker 1:So let me ask you this, as someone who's been in those interviews over and over again what do you say to people when they really struggle with this? Because I think what you get mostly is people saying yes, but I don't really feel like I should say yes.
Speaker 2:Do you ever get people who are just straight up like I can't honestly answer yes to that. Okay, so I want to go back to something real quick. And in answering that question, when you said, hey, if there's some sin in your life that you need to take care of, well, you need to take care of that, you can't just say, well, the grace of Jesus Christ is going to save me and gloss over it.
Speaker 1:And I'm feeling this way because I'm just beating myself up. No, there's godly sorrow 15,.
Speaker 2:question 15 is are there serious sins in your life that need to be resolved before you can go to the temple? So that is, you know, before you get to 16, which is are you worthy to enter the Lord's house? You had to have answered yes to 15. You know the question before, which is hey, are there serious sins that you need to resolve? And so absolutely agree with your point there. Right that, hey, if there's real sin that we've participated in and we need to take care of that. Which then leads me to 16, in which there's nobody that's really said, hey, I cannot do this.
Speaker 2:There's people that have, you know, very sheepishly said yes, but I, you know, I'm going to say yes because I love the temple and I want to go there. But this is really hard for me to say yes to. And I said, well, the answer is well, what about the last question? Are there serious sins in your life? No, then, well, guess what? Because of Jesus, you can go to the temple and it should bring us joy. It should.
Speaker 2:You know, I always one of the things I'm praying for is that I can appreciate the atonement. Understanding the atonement, we're told by even Bruce R McConkie that it's hard to, it's something that'll take eternity to understand, sure, but appreciating it is different, and I truly believe that through the Holy Ghost, we can appreciate the atonement. And unless we truly appreciate it, I'm not sure we can love Christ as much as we should, because we have to appreciate where we are. And that's where this question makes me appreciate Christ more, because I couldn't go to the Holy House without Jesus, christ's grace. So there's never been anybody that's just said no. But at the end of the day, when I have that conversation with them, I remind them you get to go there because of Jesus, because his merits, his mercy, his grace. That's beautiful.
Speaker 1:What do you find, curtis, from your perspective and this is totally your opinion when is it when someone who might be struggling in terms of worthiness, how do they know when it's something they should bring to a priesthood authority versus something that is the adversary beating them up on something that doesn't? Because I mean, on the one hand, I'm sure there's people who bring things up all the time that maybe don't warrant an actual talk, but they just don't know what else to do. So they talk to their priesthood leader about it, but do you have any advice on those elements?
Speaker 2:They're on the side of caution. There's a fine line between religious scrupulosity okay and that just means that you're always down on yourself and every little thing you do you think you're going not to heaven and this religious scrupulosity. It's almost OCD for religious people and I like that.
Speaker 2:You said that because that's probably something I can relate to, and I do, and I've had to fight through this until I've realized Jesus saves me, not me. Jesus saves me, not all my OCD, not all my thinking I'm a horrible person. Jesus is going to save me. So you've got this idea of religious scrupulosity, which is looking at everything you're doing. There are certain sins that we need to go talk to a priesthood authority about. You know that are whether it's thievery, whether it's the word of wisdom, whether it's some massive, big, fraudulent lie, whether it's, you know, breaking the law of chastity in any form. But if you have any question, go talk to your bishop and I'm going to tell a story and I'll put it out there.
Speaker 2:I was in a bishopric and I've told this story in state conference before, maybe in priesthood. Um, and I was in a bishopric, okay, this is 2007,. Eight, nine, something like that. And there was something that was pricking my mind and I'm like I've repented about that. You know, do I really need to go make an appointment with my bishop, who I'm with every Sunday, you know, and embarrass myself and do this, and I was like I don't care if I'm embarrassed, I've got it If this keeps doing this to me, even though I think I've repented about it, repented for it and and I'm done, I at least just need to go talk to him about it and see what he thinks.
Speaker 2:So when I say we need to err on the side of caution, sometimes we need to just go get that stamp of approval from our priesthood leader to say, hey, don't worry about it, move on. And then he has keys. And when a priesthood leader says, move on, you move on. And so I made an appointment with the bishop. You know, in a bishopric I'm like make an appointment, hey, can I talk to you? I talked to him about it and he chuckled a little bit and he says, kurt, he says you please stop worrying about this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this has happened at this certain time in your life. You've repented about it. You're talking to me about it. It's time to move on and I was so grateful that I did that. So if people ever ask me that question, it's the most joyous, awesome thing in the world. The bishop is awesome. He wants to be there to relieve your stress. So if there's anything in your mind that is making you think that you should, that you haven't repented of it, then go talk to the bishop. It's okay Most of the time that Satan, a lot of the time I'm going to say most is scrupulosity and thinking I'm horrible, I'm a bad person, I didn't pay for that sin, you know. Yeah, I didn't pay for it. So therefore, there's no way I can be forgiven. So I still my opinion on that is just talk to your bishop.
Speaker 1:I think you can't read that so amazingly, I love that. So much, because it's like again. I think what we're distinguishing, too is that. What do you call it? Scrupulosity, Scrupulosity.
Speaker 2:I'll never be able to say that correctly, but it's that nature.
Speaker 1:I think that would be the compulsive nature of the adversary wanting us to spin out. I think obviously we all have our strengths and our weaknesses. I am definitely prone more towards that type of thinking. So it's nice to hear that, because to be able to say, hey, listen, it's okay to go.
Speaker 1:A bishop once told me regarding a young man that we were both working with. That was in the young man's presidency and before there was. You know, it was one thing and we were talking. I said how are things going? He was like, oh, he's so great. He cleaned the cupboards, that's all he said. He didn't go into detail because that's private conversations. But the young man had told me he was going to go talk to the bishop and so I just went. I just said I'm so glad he went. He goes, will. He's such a great young man.
Speaker 1:He cleaned the cupboards, he got a broom and he went to every corner of the room and that was so special to me, this idea of like this young man was in such curiosity around his worthiness that he was probably bringing up little things that don't require a priesthood authority, but were just little things that were. I like the way you said, prick your mind. You know what are the things that are pricking our minds and I think of course we've got to if we're leaning on man versus God. We're going to go to the priesthood authority, we're going to go to our parents. We got to go to God and when we get that experience of that forgiveness and we have that joy or maybe we never experienced, experienced that, but we've done the steps and we're wondering why we haven't experienced some. Regardless, it's never wrong to bring it up to somebody who's going to represent the Lord's love for you and just help you get some peace around it.
Speaker 2:Yes, and what does President Nelson say? Repent every day. Repentance is a joyous thing. Satan makes us think repentance is a bad thing. Satan makes us think that we are horrible, weak. You know terrible people if we have to repent, and that is an absolute lie. We were sent here because we were going to make mistakes and repent. You know that's the whole purpose of it. I mean so.
Speaker 2:I mean scriptures tell us, if they yield to temptation and we learned this in the book of Moses, the book of Abraham we're going to provide a Savior for them so they can repent. Yeah, so that's the whole purpose of this life.
Speaker 1:What's so beautiful about this whole thing, too, I just want to say, is that the Savior's love is such a great equalizer. You know, I've got friends that I look up to, who are at different stages spiritually than me, that I want to be more like, and they're not perfect by any means, but they're definitely, in some areas, more advanced than me. There's other people who are really struggling with their faith, and I am just no different than these people. I am no different than all these people. We all have differences in terms of our unique personalities, especially as we have kids, there's like definite unique personalities that are there. But when it comes to worthiness, when it comes to love, yes, we have a voice and we're the free agency of what we get to do, but in all the cases where people are just trying their best like how beautiful is it that that is all that's needed is that we try our best and then the Savior's love takes care of the rest we're striving.
Speaker 2:Covenant strive, repent. I mean, if we can live by those three things, jesus takes care of everything else. He makes us so we can repent. We're bound to him through covenant. So it's amazing, it makes me so happy that we have the atonement of Jesus Christ and it makes me have great hope that I can actually receive exaltation someday. You know, it's not a bad thing to say I think I can be exalted. You know like we might sometimes think well, you can't say that. Well, no, guess what? I have the most powerful being in the universe who wants to exalt me, no matter how bad I am. As long as I'm repenting and striving, my covenant relationship with him and his grace will enable me to be exalted. And that's what that 16th question is. Do you consider yourself worthy to go into that house, to go into God's house, where no unclean thing can enter?
Speaker 1:I almost wish there would be some sub-definitions of worthy. It would almost be better, like here's what we mean by worthy A are you trying your best? And by trying your best, do you make a lot of mistakes and repent? B do you love Jesus, even though you know you could love him more? But like, deep down you know you love. Do you really love him deep down? Yeah, absolutely. Number three do you want to be better? Do you believe, because of Jesus, he has the capability of helping you be better?
Speaker 1:If that was how worthy was defined, I would scream yeah. I'd say yes, absolutely, that's me. That is me. I can do that. You know, I think I was sharing with you, before we start recording officially, how I've been surprised, when I've asked people to be on the show, that they've said no, yeah, because the topic of Temple and I think it's because I think again, podcast makes people think that those people are authorities in it. Right, yeah, and there's just. That's not this journey at all. This journey is absolutely this authentic, individualistic experience that we have to go through, but we all land in the same place, which is in the arms of our Savior.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so, yeah, I love that that question. I will never answer that question the same way again after your talk and especially after talking through it. Yeah, chris, I have a thought for you. Obviously, one of the purposes of this show is also family, history-based, so one of the things I've loved about this show is the idea that I get to create, with someone, a memory for their family. So this is for your kids, for your grandkids, for your great grandkids. What would you want them to know? What would you want to say to them about what we talked about today?
Speaker 2:And it's interesting because this year I started out this year saying, um, I'm, I'm going to do what president Nelson said. President Nelson said I urge you, I plead with you, to make the testimony of Jesus your highest priority. And, um, so I, in 2024, I said, well, last year I said I'm going to do this, okay. And I got to August and I tried. I did a lot of stuff. There's little things that I did. I got to August and I said, okay, let's take a step back. How are we doing? How are we doing with making the testimony of Jesus your highest priority?
Speaker 2:And I went through my eight months you know nine, whatever August is and I thought I have not. I'm no closer to Jesus Like I haven't. How have I improved my testimony of Jesus? What have I done? So I went through and I wrote down everything over the days that I was pondering this what has kept me from developing a testimony of Jesus? Why haven't I learned about Jesus? How come I haven't grown closer to Jesus?
Speaker 2:My whole goal I want to know more about Jesus, I want to appreciate his atonement, I want a personal spiritual witness that he's my savior. What happened? So I kind of went back through the year and I have a list of six, seven things not focused enough, not disciplined enough, not giving enough credit to the at. Well then I really dug down and I thought I'm going to spend the next couple months really digging down, and that's when I really started studying this last question Am I worthy to go to the Lord's house? And now I've got another list of what have I learned about the Savior, because in this last two months of last three months of 2025, I learned a ton about Jesus, because I focused on him, I disciplined myself and I read the scriptures and I tried to appreciate what he did for me. And so if there's anything that I want people to understand is that Jesus is joy. Jesus makes it so we can be exalted, even when we don't think we can be exalted. Jesus will exalt us so long as we've made covenants, so long as we are striving to do what is right and we repent when we fall. So that's the biggest thing. What did I learn as I studied Jesus? He is joy. My Savior brings me joy. He brings me hope because, despite all my problems, all my inadequacies, I have a chance, because of covenants I've made and because of the grace of Christ to be exalted someday.
Speaker 2:There's a scripture in Moroni 10. I've memorized the scripture. I recite it. I look at the scripture and I've never thought of it like this. It says yea, come unto Christ and be perfected in him and deny yourselves of all ungodliness. And if you shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you that by his grace you may be perfect in Christ. So we're going to be perfect in Christ. This is a prophet telling us this. And if ye, by the grace of God, are perfect in Christ, ye can in no wise deny the power of God. Why does it say that? Why does it say you can't deny the power of God? As I've been pondering the last three months and this is Curtis Keller. This is not I don't know if it's church doctrine, but it's Curtis doctrine. He is so powerful that he will make me perfect.
Speaker 1:Okay, then I was like wait a minute, you can't deny God at that point.
Speaker 2:No, if he can make me, have charity and humility and get rid of my ego and be meek and lowly of heart. Look, God says, and again a man cannot be meek and lowly of heart. A man cannot have faith and hope save. He's meek and lowly of heart, Cannot have those things unless he has charity. So if God, this scripture, says that if I put Christ first, if I deny myself to all ungodliness, if I love God with all my heart, mind and strength, he will perfect me, and then I'll never be able to deny the power of God, because there is no other power that could perfect me. I think of how I feel after a general conference and I'm like I'm never going to sin again, like Mosiah's people, but then the next minute I'm sinning. Right. But we will feel that way when we are in the presence of Jesus. His power is like the sun. It will sanctify us, it will purify us and it will perfect us, not ourselves purify us and it will perfect us, not ourselves.
Speaker 1:I love that. Your analogy of his love is the sun makes me think of consider the lilies of the field, how they toil, not.
Speaker 1:And I think about the way that anxiety is so prevalent in our world today, how we worry and we worry and we stress, and there's nothing more important than where we end up after this life, after all that we do. But to hear what you talk about, it's like, yeah, we're going to be okay, like we're in that field. We're going to be if we're flowers in the field, according to that analogy, and we're in that space, the sun is acting on us all. We want we can sit there and worry about it or we could just let it in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I'm looking up a quote here because, as you and I think about the temple, as we talk about this, and Jesus is light, but Jesus is power. I mean, who powers the sun? Yeah, jesus powers it. I mean it's amazing. But here's one thing and you don't have to include this in here, but you may want to what President Nelson said Please, sam, did you read this? Oh, the blessings.
Speaker 2:No, this is him saying. He says may I extend an invitation to you as you consider what your resolutions will be in this year. Okay, I invite you to come to the temple as often as your circumstances allow. This is the prophet of God telling us here. I urge you, I invite you to make this your resolution Go to the temple as often as you can. In the house of the Lord, we focus on Jesus Christ, we learn of him and his gospel, we make covenants which bind us to him and to our heavenly father. Through these temple experiences and others, we are strengthened to achieve our new year's resolutions. So what a great thing from the prophet and what a great, I guess, stamp of validation of what you're doing. Yeah, because we're temple bound, you're temple bound. We're trying to encourage people, normal people like me and you that, hey, I can go there, I can feel the spirit and I can be strengthened. What does he talk about? Every conference, go to the temple. His first introductory press conference go to the temple.
Speaker 1:Well, and I appreciate you saying that For the listeners here. You've heard me talk about why I've done this before, but I can't reiterate enough that this has been a very selfish endeavor for me, and the idea that you were talking about anxiety and stress and the way that the temple has shaped that for me is that with every interview, with every scripture that I hear from a guest, I believe a little bit more, and I believe a little bit more. I feel a little bit more of that Savior's love in my life. I feel less despair, I feel greater excitement, greater appreciation and my favorite thing is, greater equality. I don't feel less than or more than any other human being. The more I focus on the temple, because it's that reminder of the rising tide of God's love, how none of us rise without it and we all need it the same. So, curtis, thank you so much for being on the show.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me. I love these discussions, Even if it's never published.
Speaker 1:we had a great time. It was the best. Thank you everybody. I appreciate you being on. Yes, Thanks again for listening to today's episode of Temple Bound. If you enjoyed today's show, make sure to join us over on Instagram at Temple Bbound Podcast to receive additional information as well as previews of our upcoming episodes. See you over there.
