Temple Bound
God's children are searching in greater numbers for answers and hoping for miracles as they look to Jesus Christ for relief. On 'Temple Bound,' hosted by Will Humphreys, explore how temples offer not just solace but also powerful tools for navigating these turbulent times through faith in Jesus Christ.
Tune in every Monday to hear Will Humphreys engage with guests who bring inspiring stories, profound teachings, and insights into accessing divine guidance through temple service.
Each episode promises to enrich your understanding and strengthen your connection to the Savior in unique and transformative ways.
Whether you're seeking answers, yearning for peace, or in need of a miracle, 'Temple Bound' is your weekly spiritual refuge, helping you anchor your soul to the Savior. Join us on this sacred journey to deepen your faith and discover the blessings of temple worship.
Temple Bound
Discovering a Profound Connection with God Through Reverence with Brandon Nielson
What's the secret to a more profound spiritual life? This week, Will and Brandon explore the vital principle of reverence, inspired by Ulysses Elder's powerful talk. They uncover how reverence, like Moses' experience at the burning bush, connects us to our divine identity and fuels spiritual growth.
Key Takeaways:
- Reverence Defined: It's more than respect; it's standing in awe of the sacred.
- Temple Connection: The temple, like sacred mountains of old, is a key place to cultivate reverence.
- Divine Identity: Reverence helps us remember we are children of God, unlocking confidence and potential.
- Foundation of Spirituality: Reverence isn't just part of being spiritual – it's the essence of it.
- Cultivating Reverence: Conscious choices about what we consume and focus on matter.
- Irreverence Blocks Revelation: Like jamming communication lines, it hinders our connection with God.
- Technology & Reverence: We must be prayerful and mindful in using tools like AI to depict the sacred.
- Temple = Place of Reverence: It's designed to foster a deep connection with the Lord.
- Reverence in Prayer: Focus on feeling the connection, not just the words.
- President Nelson's Promise: Temple worship unlocks understanding and parts the veil to heaven.
How can you bring more reverence into your daily life and your worship? Explore the power of awe and respect to deepen your spiritual journey.
Thank you so much for tuning in to today's Temple Bound. I am so just overwhelmed with joy after filming this episode with Brandon Nielsen, as we're going to talk about this word called reverence. Reverence is a word that I've only heard historically, at least in my mind, around primary songs, and today we're going to be diving into Elder Suarez's talk from the April 25 General Conference about reverence, and I am so excited for you to hear this episode because it empowered me to feel like I know how to become holy in a very simple way, not that, like consistency is simple, but like what are those things that I can do, that I can control very easily to greatly impact my reverence, which, as we're going to learn, is a foundational element and one of the most important virtues we can develop? So it's a foundational element of spirituality and one of the most important virtues we can develop. So, guys, enjoy the show. All right, brandon, thank you so much for being on the show, so let's get right into it. What's the talk that you picked and why did you pick it?
Speaker 2:So, after rummaging through all the latest conference talks, the one by Ulysses Elder, ulysses Suarez, really kind of caught my eye. It's called Reverence for Sacred Things and I think it has a lot to do, honestly, with what you and I talked about last time I was on your, your podcast, which was being holy, holy, yeah, about holiness and being holy, and so it kind of caught my and as I read through the talk of he's going to talk a little bit about even more kind of expound on that and what that means, you know, and reverent, and let's be, holiness and reverence go hand in hand, right. So those two things are. Things are, um, right on top of each other.
Speaker 2:So yeah that's why I chose uh, that's why I chose this, uh, this particular talk, for sure.
Speaker 1:I love that concept because reverence he gets. He starts off the whole thing by sharing that example of Moses going and talking to the burning bush and I thought it was interesting. Reverence is a word that we use a lot in the church, but it's also one of those things where I haven't really seen anyone punch that concept the way he did and, as it turns out, we're going to get into this in just a minute but like how foundational that is in our spiritual journey. So, yeah, talk to me a little bit about that Moses. You know experience and how he sets that up and we can get kind of into that discussion.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean the first part of this is you kind of read through it here. You know Moses going to the slopes of Mount Horeb, um, and it's interesting, a lot of what he talks about. He does actually have a specific section where he talks about the temple, um, in fact two different times, where he talks about the temple, right, and the need for reverence in the temple. But you can literally this whole talk. You can, you can, uh, relate to the temple and all of this talk, like even going up to the Mount, to the source of the Mount, that is as if we are going to the temple. So every time we go to the temple, um, we could easily see we're going to, uh, you know, the mountain of the Lord's house, right, which is another phrase for what the temple is, which is pretty cool.
Speaker 2:But some of the things when you look at this and he says he turned aside from his daily cares, something we should all be willing to do, and so my first thought was how often, like in our own lives, do we take the time right To ponder and just kind of, you know, like it says here, turn aside from our daily cares and ponder and just think about the Savior right and the mercy and the love that comes from our Heavenly Father and His Son. Like how often do we really do that in our own lives, right yeah?
Speaker 1:it's such a good point like because we're so consumed by the things that worry us day to day, and sometimes these things we do when it comes to the gospel of Jesus Christ feel just like it's a common mistake for me to put that in my task list of things to do. But like he says, elder Suarez says in the talk, and I'm going to quote he says the Sacred Mountain Epiphany was an experience filled with awe-inspiring reverence, connected Moses to his divine identity and was in fact, a key element of his transformation from a humble shepherd to a powerful prophet. Isn't that interesting? This thing about setting aside our worldly cares is kind of more for us to transform into who we really are In Moses' case a prophet.
Speaker 2:That's right. And the fact that, when it says connected Moses to his divine identity, isn't that exactly what the temple is for us? Isn't that one of the things that exactly that it does for us is connects us to our divine identity and who we are Like. You remember, like another experience Moses had with the Lord. You remember when Satan appeared to Moses, right, you remember when Satan appeared to Moses, right. But what happened before that? Three times the Lord called, or the heavenly father called Moses, my son, right. He made a point to say Moses, my son, right. And then Satan came by and it was like you know, he didn't want that, he didn't want that, right. He didn't want Moses to relate himself as God's son, and so he called him, you know, son of man, right. Or mortal son, right. But you know, when you talk about connecting ourselves and, like it says, connected Moses to his divine identity, that's the first thing I thought of was you know, we are literally children of heavenly parents, right?
Speaker 1:It's interesting that that's such a key thing. That's like almost like the adversary's biggest push, yeah, is first to deny that there is a god and then second, if we can't get, if you can't get around, that is, to separate us from our connection to him through our, our parental relationship. That's right. Why do you think that is brandon? I mean, it kind of makes sense, but why? Why do you think that is?
Speaker 2:because, if he can, if he can confuse people on who they really are, everything else is it's much easier to confuse people and to tempt people and to help them forget other things that are important. If you sever somebody from who they really are, I mean everything else. After that is like, well, now I can tempt this, they're going to do anything right. After that is like, well, now I can tempt this, but they're going to do anything right over there. It's going to be a lot easier to tempt this person to do that or that or that, or or to sway them from on that, if you don't really know who you are.
Speaker 2:You know and I I had the opportunity in life to be a young men's president on three different occasions, and I will tell you this there was one thing that the Lord really impressed upon me as a young men's president a number of things right, and I know you've been there too and the one thing, though, that I just over and over again, that the spirit impressed upon me was help these young men remember who they are. That was the one thing that and I realized why because if they can remember who they really are, all of a sudden your confidence, your self-confidence goes out of the roof, right If you know you have the ability to communicate with your heavenly father whenever you need to, because he is literally your father, literally your father and have the ability to receive personal revelation. All of that stems, though. All of those things stem on knowing who you really are, and that connection is just huge.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've never heard it explained that clearly. I love the idea of the power of connecting our identity to all these other elements of revelation progression, because if we're not connected to our Heavenly Father as a child, then we don't have His spiritual DNA, we don't have the capability to overcome these miraculous things. But when we do know that relationship, there's nothing we can't do. President Nelson, in this last Yohan Conference, his last talk was all about confidence in the presence of the Lord. Right, so confidence is a big key. You said that word. Confidence in your description is the Lord. Right, so confidence is a big key. You said that word. Confidence in your description is like when we are clear in who we are, then we can lose our confidence in anything that we're doing. So that's a powerful concept.
Speaker 2:It's important, it really is, and it's, you know, at the bottom of that first paragraph, the last sentence, where he says in great reverence, humility and wonder, moses removed his shoes and prepared himself to hear the word of the Lord and to experience his holy presence. So that word reverence, I think, is interesting to kind of dissect a little bit, right? So if we look at the word reverence, what is the root word of reverence? Revere, right? So what does it mean to revere someone or revere something? So revere, if you look at the definition of revere, it's to regard with respect. And it's interesting, the dictionary says tinged, the word tinged, which I thought was interesting, tinged with awe, a-w-e, tinged with awe.
Speaker 1:Interesting, tinged like, just sprinkled with awe.
Speaker 2:I was like okay, now, what's interesting about that? Now, synonyms are adore, honor, right and reverence. Those are the or, adore and honor. So adore and honor are the synonyms to revere. So we revere something, we adore something right, or we honor something right which is all over the scriptures. Now, a little bit farther down, he talks about the word reverence. We can read about this. But the Latin verb, or the word reverence, can be traced to the Latin verb, which is reverere, I think, is I don't know how you say it in Latin, I think that's how you say it which means to stand in awe of. So that is what reverence is all about. Is we literally stand in awe of our Heavenly Father, of His Son, right, which brings us to our knees, right, like, why is it? When people see the Savior in person, what do they do? They drop to their knees in awe because they're just, they adore Him, they honor Him, right, and I think that is so. It's just so important. I think that's crucial. But we'll read a little bit more.
Speaker 1:Now. I love this, though. It's so powerful, this idea, that, like understanding language I learned this, brandon, from a great coach years ago. But we do a horrible job in America of dissecting words to teach our children, and oftentimes in the gospel, as we heard in a previous episode. Sometimes, you know, members of bishoprics are doing temple recommend interviews and youth are finally like you're asking me if I'm keeping the law of chastity, can you share with me what does chastity mean? Like they understand elements of the law, but what does the word mean? So by dissecting these words like Elder Suarez does and you just did, it gives us a deeper depth, a depth of understanding around what we're going to be talking about next, which is why this word is so important when it comes to our faith.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's very important, very important. So, yeah, I mean, in the next paragraph again, it continues on talking about Moses traveling to the slopes of Mount Horeb, or, excuse me, where it says that second paragraph down, excuse me that sacred mountain epiphany, right, so that phrase sacred mountain again, this kind of goes back to, you know, the temple, right, and this is that's immediately what I think of, right, when I think of a mountain and somebody going up into a mountain, whether it's Moses going up into the mountain or Nephi being led way up into a mountain. Right, these are sacred temple experiences, is what I'm is the way I look at these experiences. Right, and we all have the ability to do this as often as we want by going to the temple. It's literally the same experience, is as going to the temple.
Speaker 1:There's no difference and to your point. It's interesting how, like he talks about Moses earlier in that quote, how, in the very first paragraph, he talks about Moses earlier in that quote, how, in the very first paragraph, he talks about Moses removed his shoes to prepare himself. We there's a lot of clothes changing that goes on in the temple because we are preparing our physical bodies to change the mental state that we're going to go into to show reverence that's right to be in awe, you know, or sprinkling with awe our respect for our Heavenly Father and his church.
Speaker 1:So, yes, I love that connection between the mountain and temples. That's phenomenal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's awesome and we talked about this a little bit already. But you know, and it says, it connected Moses to his divine identity. We talked about that, which is what the temple does. It connects us to our divine identities of who we really are and it was, in fact, a key element of his transformation. So, you know, obviously the question becomes okay, well, if this experience helped transform Moses, how does the temple help transform us? Right?
Speaker 2:And you look at the many different opportunities that we have to serve in the temple, and whether it's going to do baptisms, or the initiatory work that we do, or the endowment work that we do right, the initiatory work that we do, or the endowment work that we do right, or the sealing work that we do.
Speaker 2:And and I try, personally, when I go to the temple, I try to mix it up right, I don't try to do the same thing every time. I know a lot of people do that, um, but the the last time I did, uh, I went to the temple last week. I went to the ceilings because I hadn't done ceilings for a little bit and I tell you, you like the language and I think the language having the ability to just really, you know, really listen, open our ears and listen to the words and the language is so crucial and I think, but that's part of that transformational process, when we really understand what the blessings that come from temple worship and those the ordinances, right, and the covenants that we're making are, so they're just absolutely it's amazing to me, you know, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's, it's really is powerful to you know, be in that state where Moses. Because of that, he went from shepherd to prophet. So there's, there's degrees of identity. Is what we're learning from this too. Moses was number one, son of God, foundational. Nothing's more important or supersedes that to become a tool in the Lord's hands, the way the Lord wanted him. He became a prophet and, like you're saying, if we go to the temple, what is our divine identity besides not besides, I'm sorry In addition to being a son or daughter of God, and it's like we don't know, but we have to be willing to leave behind.
Speaker 1:You know my case being a son or daughter of God, and it's like we don't know, but we have to be willing to leave behind. You know my case being a physical therapist or whatever it is that we do worldly. We have to be willing to leave behind that to create whatever new identity. It is, and that's cool, is that for you? It's been, you know, young men's leader three times. So, as we develop these different identities, they're all founded in this idea of being a son of God. But until we go to the Mount, until we go to the temple and show reverence, we don't really know until we're open to it, and then what we get invited to become. Like you know, would Moses ever be known? If he was just the world's greatest shepherd, right, right, like, no one would ever have heard of him. But becoming a prophet?
Speaker 2:every, every single person on this planet at some point has heard the name moses yeah it's pretty unbelievable what the lord can do to expand our identity yeah, yeah, we not only learn who we are, um, but we also. One of the other things we learn is who we can become right. So it's not just who we are and who where we came from, um, in terms of our heavenly parentage and heritage, it's also, if you keep your covenants that you make in this holy place of all the holiest places on the earth, you have the ability to become just like your heavenly parents one day, right and that, and that goes down a road that you know we can only imagine what that must be like, right One day, to be able to be at that point, and it's going to be. I mean, it's the ultimate of all blessings, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's the end, all be all you know I love this talk.
Speaker 1:One of the things in the next paragraph he says cause building on this word reverence he talks about in the beginning of this one paragraph. He says reverence for sacred things is the greatest manifestation of a vital spiritual quality. I wanted to pause there, brandon. My kids can't stand it when I do a review of food. As you know, I'm a foodies foodie like, but not like, I'm not like picky. I love everything so much and so my kids will be like, hey dad, how was that restaurant? I'm like oh man, it's the best when I use the best when it comes to food. They roll their eyes because I just like everything so much and I tend to exaggerate.
Speaker 1:But when a prophet, an apostle of the Lord, says the greatest, I pay close attention because they don't lie. Reverence for sacred things is the greatest manifestation of a vital spiritual quality. It is a byproduct of our connection to holiness. Going back to our our last meeting, brandon talked about being holy. Reverence is a connection to our holiness and reflects our love for and proximity to, our heavenly father and our savior, jesus Christ. What a powerful sentence to talk about the word reverence.
Speaker 2:Totally yeah. And you know, in D&C 60, section 60, verse 7, it says the Lord says I am, for I am able to make you holy, and I can tell you he has the ability to do that. Right, Nothing is impossible for the Lord. Right, but it's interesting, he says I am able to make you holy, right, but right, he doesn't say I'm going to no matter what, but we are the ones that have to make it happen. Right, he can help us along the way and he can help us get to that point, but ultimately it is. It is really up to us.
Speaker 2:And you know, reverence, go, it's reverence for everything sacred, right, the temple, the sacrament. You know what we do each Sunday. You know having reverence for the sacrament. I mean, how many times during the sacrament, as we're sitting there, do we truly have reverence, or reverence that special moment every Sunday? Right, as compared to maybe thinking about what we're going to be doing this week for work, or you know it's just. You know the ability to sit back and truly reverence an ordinance like the sacrament every Sunday. I think it kind of. I think it says a lot about where somebody is in terms of their spiritual maturity and where they're at in their lives in terms of you know how much or to what degree people reverence things that are sacred, like the sacrament, like the temple and things like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this was something. I really you're blowing my mind a little bit on this, brandon, cause you know I was thinking I'd had the sacrament today and I was looking back and I I know what I was thinking about and it was. It was a lot, a lot of things you know. Some of it was my calling, obviously, like that's an obvious environmental piece.
Speaker 1:But it's interesting that you mentioned how reverencing things, showing respect to things, can be done completely internally and then when people are externalizing how they view about things, like how they you know me I love to joke around how, like, if you joke around about sacred things, that's not showing reverence and it's a good indication for ourselves not to judge others but for ourselves to go. Yeah, how holy am I, how holy am I being, how much respect and love am I demonstrating to my Savior? And the Lord obviously loves for us to laugh and have a good time, but there are things that are so sacred that they're not things that you joke around about. These are things that and it's not about joking around, that's just my language for me, since I like to laugh a lot, but at the end of the day, like sacrament, like what we're thinking about, is such. I don't know. I just have this idea that, like, reverence is a choice, what we reverence is an action. It's part of our agency.
Speaker 2:Oh, it totally is. Yeah, yeah, and it's interesting. I look back in different times in my life and different wards that I've been in over the years and you look around at certain people during the sacrament. I've noticed this with people. Some people almost every Sunday are eyes closed during the sacrament. You can tell they're meditating, they're pondering. Some people have tears coming down their face. There was a guy in my old ward which I don't I'm not saying this is appropriate by any means or this is normal, but he would literally kneel down for the sacrament prayers in the aisle.
Speaker 1:Wow, and that was just his way. No judgment either way, but like that was his way of showing reverence, but the idea being, you know, we have an opportunity to really reverence those sacred ordinances that occur and receiving that holy ghost. You know it's interesting. Um, uh, I talked to a stake. Um, it's not a stake president, a person who does the stake blessings, a stake patriarch. Here we are I landed on it, the stake patriarch, when our son was getting his, his patriotic blessing, and he said do you know that one of my main responsibilities is to sit on the stand at stake conference and assess the general spiritual health of the stake by watching how people emotionally respond. I said, really, so like again, you don't, as an example of, as a measure of how we're doing with our relationship with father in heaven and how closely we really believe our identity is by what we reverence and what we don't reverence.
Speaker 2:That's right, that's right. Well, you know. And he says here he says reverence. In that same paragraph says reverence is not just an aspect of spirituality, it is the essence of it, Right? What does that mean? Um, I would say, literally, the when we're looking at how, how to be how, when we say somebody is spiritual, what are we saying? Like when you say, oh, that person's a very spiritual person, what are we saying when we say something like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, someone's very, um, someone who demonstrates a great deal of like virtues and attributes that we would connect with deity, someone who's obviously even doing those actions of like, highly engaged in their religious or spiritual journey.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so what illersuarez is saying is that spirituality, uh, it's not just an reverence, is not just an aspect. One aspect of being spiritual is being reverent. It's literally the foundation of the whole thing.
Speaker 1:Reverence is a foundation for spirituality. That's right, Holiness right.
Speaker 2:Or the foundations for being a spiritual quote, unquote spiritual person, right, those are the. The basic foundation is is is reverence, reverencing holy things and spiritual things. Um, fascinating, yeah, and like he says, it says it creates a personal connection to the divine right. So I mean, there, there is no more. I mean, you know who, who are the holiest beings? You know that we, that we know of, and the most spiritual? Well, of course it's you, it's our heavenly father and it's our savior, right? So, but yeah, that's, um, the very foundation of it is reverence, which is when he, when I read that the first time, I was like wow, that is, I've never heard anybody say it like that, right. Or you know, when somebody talks about, what does it mean to be a spiritual person? And then then you come to understand that you know the very bedrock, the foundation of the whole thing, is learning how to reverence, how to be reverent, how to reverence holy things.
Speaker 1:It's amazing. It's interesting too, Isn't it funny, how in primary you go back to primary. If there's a word that they're constantly teaching at the primary level, it's reverence Reverence Leverantly quietly, yep.
Speaker 1:And it's not just about quieting noisy kids, it's about teaching them in a very isn't it powerful Like we just think of those things as like normal If you, if you have children, or if you've ever gone through primary yourself, how it's like yeah, yeah, yeah, they sing these songs, but these are. This is the profound nature of what the gospel of Jesus Christ teaches at that elementary level. Right, is that where they? Where are they learning? They're learning the early steps of spirituality, and that focus is on reverence reverently, quietly folding their arms. There's multiple church primary songs that talk about reverence. It's pretty amazing, when you think about it from this elder sores perspective of like no, we're teaching them a spirituality foundation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's. You know, that's what we learn in primary right when we're young kids, and um, and what a contrast right To to the world and just the way the world is in terms of, I mean man, there is no really reverence with worldly things, there is no holiness with worldly things. Right, there's just not no they're used.
Speaker 1:They're used to be trampled on now, and comedy being a great example of that. But ultimately the world, even outside of the church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints, used to have a general reverence for elementary element things in the world right Like God in general was respected in terms of like general society. But now you know they're being depicted on shows, cartoons, whatever, as a joke and or like belief structures to be laughed at, even though you know people seriously love their heavenly father. There's, there's this lack of reverence that exists around it. The tone has definitely shifted, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yep, um yeah. Next paragraph. What does it say? As disciples of Jesus Christ, we are invited to cultivate the gift of reverence in our, in our lives, in order to open ourselves to a deeper communion with God and his son Jesus Christ, simultaneously strengthening our spiritual character.
Speaker 1:Cultivating the gift of reverence.
Speaker 2:That's very interesting, Yep yep, and it is a gift. It really is right. It is something that we can all. We can all receive this gift too right. This is one of those that all of us can cultivate this what he says gift In our lives. And it says how do we? More of such feelings in our hearts, there would be undoubtedly greater joy and delight in our lives and there would be less room for sorrow and sadness. That's interesting. So the more that we've reverence sacred things and the more that there would be less room for sorrow and sadness in our lives.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean I wouldn't connect those two things at all outside of this talk being reverent, limiting the amount of sorrow and sadness, because there simply isn't room for it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right, Because I think it's where your focus is right. I think that's very important.
Speaker 1:I guess it's true. You can't be reverent unless you're focused on spiritual things. That's right, yeah.
Speaker 2:That makes total sense, and it's President McKay. David O McKay said a quote of his says if there were more reverence in human hearts, there would be less room for sin and sorrow and more increased capacity for joy and gladness. Less room for sin and sorrow and more increased capacity for joy and gladness to make more cherished, more adaptable, more attractive. This gem among brilliant virtues is a project worthy of the most united and prayerful efforts of every officer, every parent and every member of the church. So it's a good way to say it.
Speaker 1:He called it a gem amongst brilliant virtues. Yeah, so it's almost like again he's President McKay in that case is separating out reverence amongst all those great virtues that exist. I don't know, I just have never really thought about reverence in the way that we're talking about it. And at the beginning of that quote, the first quote, you read cultivating the gift of reverence. Brandon, what does that look like for you? Like, how do you cultivate reverence in your life? Or how do you help your family cultivate reverence?
Speaker 2:I think that goes back to surrounding ourselves with things that are holy, things that bring light into our lives. I have found throughout my own life and I'm sure a lot of people have done this as well that as you make the concerted effort to do away with certain things in your life and you know, and it could be very specifically to things like the, the, the music we listen to, um, sometimes. Or the, the, the shows that we decide to watch on Netflix, right, or whatever, um, or movies that we decide to go see, you know as, and there's you know little things here and there, but as we, you know, know the way we speak sometimes, um, but as we continue to let those things go by the wayside, right, and one of my, and I think I've, you and I have talked about this and we probably, who knows, we could have even talked about it on the first time. We talked on the first podcast. But one of my most favorite scriptures, and all of scripture, is when aaron, one of mosiah's sons, aaron, was teaching King Lamoni's father the gospel, right, and after he had taught him the principle, the basic principles of the gospel of Jesus Christ, you could, there was a light that came into the King Lamoni's you know being at the time at that point and he said I, you know, I'm willing to give away all of my sins to know thee Right. And that is so.
Speaker 2:I think that is so crucial for every one of us to be willing to give up all of our quote, unquote sins. Or not necessarily. Maybe maybe it's not even a sin. It could just be little things that are just that little, that little things that maybe are holding us back just that much, where it could be like, just again, the music we're listening to on a regular basis or whatever, right, those little things in our lives. But if we're willing to give those up, does that give us the ability to cultivate the gift of reverence even more in our lives? And I think it does.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, it came to mind to me because you know apparently I'm using the podcast as a personal growth journey. But I immediately thought of like flipping through my my um, my shorts, you know the, the flip TikTok videos and those types of short form videos. I think there's a time and place for that. But I remember someone talking about social media being a tool and how we shouldn't be using the tool until we know what we're using it for. And the one of the great gifts of this podcast has been leveraging.
Speaker 1:I'm actually in social media quite a bit. 99% of the time is for this podcast or something that's productive in that way and I love using it in that way. But at night it's so easy to kind of unwind with just, and I'm not. I'm not saying it's bad to do that, I just for me, but maybe that. But I will say this like every occasionally a video pops up that I've got to quickly scroll past. That's still a miniature exposure to, to something that's not going to bring me. So it's like everyone's got their own path on this. So again, I'm not making a blanket statement, I'm just real. I'm just saying for me sometimes it's small things like that. Maybe. Sometimes it's big things. Like you know, I shouldn't be doing something that I know is wrong. That's habitual, it doesn't matter. But the point is, is that reverence is about being willing to like from what you just said, being willing to let it go?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree a hundred percent, and it's you know, if you really, I think, boil it down to almost the most basic level, whether you're talking about your thoughts, what you're thinking, whether you're what you're speaking or what you're actually doing, you are either one of doing one of two things. You are either bringing more light into your life or you're bringing more darkness into your life. There, right Cause there is no, there is no set. You can't be sedentary, sedentary, right, there's no. You're always either going one way or the other way there's.
Speaker 1:The one thing that's constant is is they're always we're always changing. Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:So I think, you know, sometimes in our lives at least and this is just me personally, it's just you know I have to ask myself sometimes like is this, is this thing, or is this activity, or is this what I'm doing, is this bringing light into my life or is it not? Because if it's not, then I know it's probably doing the opposite. But that's a lifelong, we're talking about a lifelong process, right, of those little things, casting away those little things in our lives little by little, um, until we get to the point till you know where we I guess we can, you know, learn to truly reverence, uh, those things that are holy and become holy ourselves, right, yeah?
Speaker 1:I, you know, for me personally, I'm thinking about the idea of what you're saying, of how to reverence things by just being using reverence as a filter, and you know, I hear this word preparation in my mind right now as we're talking. Preparing for the sacrament, preparing for the temple, like going to church intentionally, knowing that the whole reason I'm even going is is that, like, there's other elements that are secondary, there's fellowshipping, there's all these things, but at the end of the day, the, the sacrament, is the why. So why? What would it look like if, every, if I, if I respected that sacred ordinance with the most respect that I could and with a twinge of awe? What would that look like for me? It's going to be different for me, right? That's why we can't judge other people how they do it or don't Cause. For me it's going to look a bit differently than it will for you, but for me, to show, heavenly Father, that will allow so much light in that there's not room for the sorrow and darkness that so easily fills us if we don't.
Speaker 2:Well, and the amazing thing about it is, you know, the Lord loves effort, you know, and the more effort we put in, and the Lord sees that right, that we want to be more like him and be and continually become more like him in our lives, um, he just continues to bless us with more and more right You're. You're never going to get to a point where you have too much holiness in your life or you have too much light in your life right, not in this life at least.
Speaker 2:No no, no, that that's something that you could never. I mean, and you can feel it, right, when you're in the presence of somebody, certain people, right, that we all know them, yeah, you can feel it Like you're like man, this person. There's something about this person that they just exude holiness and they exude reverence and they exude light, right, you can just feel it when you're around them, you know.
Speaker 1:It's so funny. You should say that my Heather and I were at a wedding reception on Friday night. One of our son, one of our son's best friends, got married and we had the privilege of going to the reception. And you know how it is when you go to those things you sometimes run into people that you haven't seen in forever. And we ran into an old stake, president, president Jensen. We ran into him and, oh sorry, president Palmer President Jensen was back decades ago. He was also one of those guys.
Speaker 1:But I saw this President Palmer, I went over and just hugged his neck, told him I loved him and he wanted to talk, because he's that guy and I could tell there's like 18 people wanting to talk to him. I said no, I'm going to let you go, I just want to let you know I think about you. And I turned to Heather and I said you know, one of the greatest testimonies for me that I know the gospel of Jesus Christ is true is how I feel with some of the members of the church, like him. What you just said really struck that chord, because this is a man who is so loving, like just accepting nonjudgmental service oriented, like to me when I think about why I'm in the church.
Speaker 1:It's one thing, and it's the savior. The savior is the only thing that matters, and so when I'm with people that give me the greatest physical demonstration of what the savior is like and they're they're usually people in the church who are serving in capacities like this it builds my testimony. It overrides so many of the other things that go back to church history or any of these other elements, because the proof is standing right there in front of me in terms of how I feel, based on his or her love of me and the Lord. You can feel it, brandon. I love that you say that, because you can feel reverence.
Speaker 2:Oh, you totally can, you totally can and, and you know, the wonderful thing about that is that it it helps, at least me personally. You know, think that I want to be like that. Yes, I, I want to be the type of person that when somebody approaches me, there's something different. And, you know, and I don't see that in like a that, in like a braggadocio type way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, someone better than no, but something different in a way that's like authentic and connecting Correct.
Speaker 2:That's right. I mean it's, if you've ever met a general authority or had the opportunity to talk with a general authority or an apostle, right, then you know what I mean. Like it's there, you just feel it. There's just something there and they, they just have a light about them and a spirit about them. And, yeah, there's no doubt, when we start talking about the, you know spiritual out of the bedrock and the foundation of spirituality is reverence. That's that's where it comes from, for sure.
Speaker 1:So you know a really good. That's a great point and a great segue into the next part of the talk is that, now that you and I have talked deeply about Elder Suarez's concept of reverence, what it is, why it's important the next paragraphs he spends time talking about warning us against irreverence. You hit that point earlier about how the world is aggressively going irreverent, um, and so let's talk about that a little bit. What was it from those paragraphs that stood out to you about his warnings regarding irreverence?
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, the reality in the world in which we live in today, it's, it's just. It's too easy to be caught up in things that are either just plain irreverent, right, that are not wholly not, you know they're not, they're very irreverent things and it's not holy not, you know they're not, they're very irreverent things and it's just things that we're confronted with on a daily basis. But even things like it, even like if you look at the last, we see where the paragraph where it says irreverence, can also lead us away. Yes, so you look at the very last sentence in there, where it says irreverence towards sacred things furthers the adversary's aims by disrupting our sensitive channels of revelation, which are crucial for our spiritual survival in our day. Now, the footnote there is by boyd k packer, and in this this is what it says. It says october 1991, general conference. It says the first order issue. This is elder packer.
Speaker 2:Um, the title of the talk, by the way, is reverence invites revelation. So it says the first order. This is interesting. The first order issued by a commander mounting a military invasion is the jamming of the channels of communication of those he intends to conquer. So, jamming the channels of communication, irreverence, suits the purposes of the adversary by obstructing the delicate channels of revelation in both mind and spirit.
Speaker 2:So I think we are literally bombarded on the daily by social media TV, you name it, whatever it is right.
Speaker 2:Media of that is is is anything but reverent, right?
Speaker 2:So we have to have the ability to like and this kind of goes back to we were talking about before but kind of try to, as much as we can, to kind of try to do away with some of those things, because it does it. Ultimately, I think the goal, the goal here is reverence, brings spirituality into our lives and allows us to have that communication or that revelation that we need with uh, with our heavenly uh, with our heavenly uh father and his son. And you know, you remember what president Nelson said in general conference right, like there's and this was years ago, I think this was back in 2018 or something like that when he basically said, like, if you're, the days are coming which is now that if you're not being guided and directed by the spirit and everything in all that you do, you're not going to make it. Yeah, you literally will not make it Right. And so there's no doubt that reverence is a big part of that Learning how to reverence sacred and holy things in our lives.
Speaker 1:It's such an interesting connection, right, because here's two elements I've never thought of before.
Speaker 1:Number one, that reverence is the foundation for all spiritualness, right, and that the way we prepare for these sacred ordinances, like going to the temple, is how we receive the light from our Father, which pushes out darkness and sadness.
Speaker 1:But then the counter of that is a little bit different, in that, like you said, it disrupts connection, like Boyd K Packer said, in a military sense, it destroys communication. And I heard in my mind as you were doing that I had this mental image of me being on my phone earlier today and it was cutting out, just that, like you're catching a little bit here and there, but you're frustrated because you don't get the full message, you're only getting parts of it, then it's not really helpful, and so you're, you're putting forth a lot of effort with no result, and I think that's what happens when we irreverently, um show up around these sacred things, is that we disrupt those communication channels, causing frustration, causing anger and disconnecting us from our father. So it's interesting how revelation and reverence go so hand in hand, um, because it's it's the connection of light to our temporal state, yeah, and so it's very, it's very powerful, because these are things I would have never connected prior to this talk.
Speaker 2:Just very interesting. Kind of the cell phone thing is funny. I just had a thought when you said oh, I have this thought, but it's like. It's like our heavenly father's on the other side of the line saying can you?
Speaker 1:hear me now. And if we're irreverent, we're going under a mountain on purpose, like or not mountains a bad analogy but going out of cellular range on purpose because we're like being disrespectful. We're time, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's so true though I love that. Um, let's see here, yeah, just the the paragraph that it says, where it says the meaning and importance of reverence. Um, that last line, it just says reverence toward our heavenly father and his son, jesus Christ, is an essential virtue for those who attain the celestial kingdom. So that's, that's interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, again, I think this is a word that we sometimes downplay because it's so primarily used in the primary, but for us it's a foundational element, and he's just trying to hit it so hard. It's like, hey, this has got to be clear for you to understand that without virtue you're not able to get close to the Heavenly Father's presence. Reverence is the connection between us and God.
Speaker 2:That's right. That's right. Yep, let's see. It's interesting. One of the other things I thought was interesting is his discussion here on using AI and the ability to use AI either in a reverent way or in a very much irreverent way, which I thought was interesting Because I mean AI. Every day it gets bigger and bigger and bigger, right, and the abilities of AI get more and more and more and more every single day, it seems like. But it is interesting when he talks about this. He just says, like um, but it is interesting when he talks about this.
Speaker 2:He just says as a church, we strive to hold the father and the son and the utmost sacredness and respect in every aspect, including how we depict their images.
Speaker 2:I mean, how many times on on instagram or any other of these social media platforms do we see images of the savior? For sure that somebody's or ai has come up with, right? This is what he's talking about. He says the guidance of the holy ghost is a crucial component in determining how these images should reflect the sacred nature, character and godly attributes of the father and the son and of the son. We are very careful to avoid portraying elements that could distract from our primary focus on our heavenly father, in His Son Jesus Christ, and their teachings, including how we apply advanced tools offered by technology, such as using artificial intelligence to generate content and images. So, if you remember, elder Bednar gave a talk not too long ago about this as well, about AI and using AI correctly and reverently, I think, in our case, right here, right. So the fact that two apostles have now talked about this is, I think, is, something important.
Speaker 1:And he hits us again later in the paragraph about AI imagery and the Savior. And honestly, Brandon, I'm still not totally tracking what that means. I've definitely seen a ton of images through social media where they're depicting the Savior, and I'm sure many of them are AI generated, but do you know what he's talking about? Can you help me understand that a little bit better?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, if you look at the next paragraph I think it kind of clears it up a little bit. He says the same principle is applied to any source of information available through the official communication channels of the church. So every lesson, every book, manual message is carefully developed and approved under the direction of the Spirit to make sure we maintain the sacred virtue, values and standards of the gospel of Jesus Christ. So he actually does talk. He does reference Elder Bednar's talk as well, where he says To navigate the complex intersection of spirituality and technology, latter-day Saints should humbly and prayerfully, one, identify gospel principles that can guide their use of artificial intelligence and, two, strive sincerely for the companionship of the Holy Ghost and the spiritual gift of revelation. So I think it's more of listen. It's not necessarily, I don't think irreverent to have AI generate images of the Savior in certain situations, but I think we need to be prayerful and and use the gift of the Holy Ghost and be guided in how we do so. Right Cause I'm getting it.
Speaker 2:Yes, I think there are certain situations where we can say, okay, ai, create this picture or video for me, uh, with the savior, with Jesus doing this. I just think we need to be careful in how we do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it makes sense. I you know. I think this goes back to reverencing again. They're modeling reverence for us leveraging technology, because we've never in the history of humanity had the power we have at our fingertips. That came up just two years ago and in five years, what AI is going to be able to do. So I get that point because I can see someone well-intended, like using an analogy and wanting oh, maybe I'll create an image of the savior with this particular metaphor that I've created, and they put them together and it's not really an official way that we should be representing our savior. It's like whenever it comes to the savior, he's just reemphasizing to be prayerful and extra mindful about whenever we're using anything that is going to be about the Savior. And these tools that are generating content are really powerful. So if we're not being extra careful, we could misrepresent and be irreverent around that and disrupt that communication line.
Speaker 2:Yep, I think that's the key. Follow the spirit.
Speaker 1:I think that's but it's just so interesting that it came up. It's like two paragraphs about AI and the Savior, two things I've never linked together. Yeah, but they are the ones as seers, the same people who wrote the proclamation to the world about the family, who later did home church, just a few years before COVID. All these different things. They see things that are coming.
Speaker 1:So for me, what I also feel is that this is relevant today but, it's probably way more relevant for two years from now, when it becomes this tool that people are using to influence mindsets of people. I agree, especially around religious topics like our Savior.
Speaker 2:Yep, they do that a lot, right, a lot of the times when they give talks, it is for us now, but it might be for something coming. They can foresee, right, something coming for sure. Well, I mean the very next paragraph. He literally says as sophisticated as modern technology has become, it simply cannot simulate the wonder there's that word ah, again yeah and amazement found in the kind of reverence born from the influence of the holy ghost. So, ultimately, it's all about the spirit, right, it's all about the holy ghost and and and allowing ourselves to be led by the holy Ghost, by the Spirit. And if we are, then we're going to know what to do or not do right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and just I love that. And just highlighting again the point of how powerful the most important piece is the Holy Ghost and our Heavenly Father, these other tools are just tools.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they are. They're just tools. And you know, in that same paragraph he said we should remember that relying on the modern technological arm of flesh quote unquote is an adequate and disrespectful substitute for the inspiration, edification and witness that can be received only through the power of the Holy Ghost. So he says it much better than we can Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Absolutely All right. So we're going to get now to my favorite part of this whole talk. Yep, I love this next section because we're talking specifically about reverence in the temple. Even though you've done a great job of tying it throughout this whole discussion, here is where Elder Suarez really punches it, in this paragraph, where it starts with in another revelation Yep, the prophet Joseph Smith was instructed that temples erected unto the Lord should be a place of reverence to him. So this is the primary, like foundational creation of temples is based as a place of reverence to him.
Speaker 2:Well, what does it say on the?
Speaker 1:outside of the temple. Holiness to the Lord. That's right, holiness, and you've done a great job of connecting holiness and reverence to that. So, yeah, tell me about this thing about you know place of reverence to him. So, yeah, tell me about this thing about you know place of reverence to him. Um, what were your thoughts on this paragraph?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, if there's any place that we show reverence, I mean the temple is definitely the, the, the number one place in our world, right, as a followers of Jesus Christ, where we show the most reverence. There is no doubt. Like I said, like we literally, and he says in here I mean, what's one of the first things we do when we get to the temple? We take off our shoes, our worldly shoes, right, and we put on our temple clothes to show what. Why do we do that? Well, to show reverence. That's why we do it right, because we want to show reverence to the place that we're in.
Speaker 2:You know D&C. It's interesting if you look at the footnote there D&C 109. Yes, verses 13 and 16 to 21 talking about the temple. And he says verse 13,. It says and that all people who shall enter upon the threshold of the Lord's house may feel thy power and feel constrained to acknowledge that thou has sanctified it and that it is thy house, a place of thy holiness. It's just crazy, and I don't know if I ever put this together as much, but just the words reverence and holiness together, they're almost like, not the same but they are so much overlapping there's like a relationship there that almost feels like they're one.
Speaker 2:They are. Yeah, I think you're right, I think they totally are. Um, yeah, it's, it's pretty amazing. I'm just looking through these scriptures, let's see yeah, and that no unclean thing shall be permitted to come into thy house to pollute it, and yeah, so it's, it's, it's amazing's, amazing. So, yeah, it's, the temple of all things is the one, the one place where we we really not only that we need to show reverence, but I think, where we learn how to be more reverent and how to how to have more reverence in our lives is is the temple there's, and I think that's probably one of the reasons why it's so important that we go back.
Speaker 2:Like president nelson says, often, you know not, you know not just once a year or once you know even I mean not, listen, I'm not even once a month. I think for a lot of people it's huge, right, sure, especially if you have a temple that's hours away from you. That's huge. If you can get there once a month, that's awesome. Um, but you know, as, as your time allows and has you, your ability allows to get to the temple as often as you can, because it's truly where we learn to not, you know, become holy, but also, you know, learn what this word reverence is all about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I love the connection of how the prophet Joseph Smith was told to build temples to be a place of reverence between us and the Lord. And then you know, we learned earlier how reverence is like the foundational step of receiving revelation. So there's this connection. It's almost like reverence is the connection between holiness and revelation. There's a middle step there. It's what binds these things together. It's what makes us holy and receives information and light which continues to make us holy, this cause and effect between the three.
Speaker 1:But it's interesting because like reverence to me feels like the one thing I can control.
Speaker 1:Like that to me.
Speaker 1:You know, I was thinking about prayers when you were just talking right now about how, uh, thanks to Dennis Deaton, who was a guest on the show, I've been making a bigger effort of like doing my prayers differently you don't want to get into that because it's just my personal way of doing it but like being more demonstrative and vocal.
Speaker 1:I'll say that like I'll pray out loud and like have my pad ready to just if I have any thoughts to write them down, not that I always do, but just like demonstrating that reverence has created experiences for me, just in simple prayer, that are exponentially more powerful to me than when I would just kind of say something in my mind in the shower because I forgot, and I'm not ripping on that. Sometimes I'm going through a hard time. Maybe that's the best I can do, but we all know when we're trying our best. I think reverence is about effort, right, like you said, the Lord loves effort, and that's probably the easiest way for us to tap into holiness and revelation is just by choosing to be prepared and make an effort around being reverent.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I and I'm glad you brought up, you know prayer and you know one of the things that I've tried to hyper-focus on in, in, in prayer and praying, is not so much the words I'm speaking but how I'm feeling.
Speaker 2:Not so much the words I'm speaking but how I'm feeling. And I've had times where I literally will get on my knees at night and I won't even say anything. I'll just sit and I'll just try to. What I'm trying to accomplish is to feel that connection. So I'm focused on the feeling, on feeling connected to heavenly father, as compared to just speaking, because he, the reality is, he already knows what we're going to say, right, he already knows what we need, what we stand in need of and what blessings we feel like we stand in need of. So a lot of the times, for me it's it's more of I just want to feel right, I want to feel that connection to my Heavenly Father. And that's not to say every time I pray, I do that, but once in a while I do, and it's an interesting exercise just to sit there and just be silent and just try to feel that connection right.
Speaker 1:I have never done that and I want to try that because I'm the guy that has to talk, because if there's an awkward silence I'm the guy like hey, if, if our award goes too long without someone bearing their testimony, I'll pop up, just because it's like this is too awkward. But I think to your point like I love the idea of approaching prayer differently because it avoids the whole vein repetition thing which anyone's guilty of. I love that. That's such a powerful way to demonstrate reverence. And I wonder what everyone's individual if we really like we're just wanting to exercise our agency, to feel connected to how your father I wonder what are the different ways that I could in my own world? What could I do differently or what could I demonstrate in a way that shows that I'm trying harder? Maybe it's just consistency in my world. It's like maybe it's just being more consistent in my effort and that can be huge.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's. It is kind of interesting as well. President David O McKay talked a lot about the importance of pondering and meditation. Yes, and how important pondering and meditation are, and and that has a lot to do with why I said what I said in the terms of, instead of praying sometimes and like actually, you know, talking in my mind or talking out loud, that I just want to ponder for a second, right, I just want to sit, I want to be silent and I just want to see, cause you can I promise you, you, you will, you will feel, you will feel that connection, right, and it's uh, anyway, it's a cool exercise, um, but you know, I'd invite anybody that hasn't really approached prayer that way to try it.
Speaker 1:And uh, I love that idea of of inviting people who are listening to ponder when they pray, and pondering maybe doesn't even look like Pondering is when we're actively pursuing thoughts in our mind.
Speaker 1:Meditating is a simple state of being. Still, I don't think it goes beyond that, at least for me. And I feel just like I'm supposed to say to people who are listening if you're feeling a hard time, feeling the spirit after the prayer, spending some time being reverent in that prayer, show reverence on the back end, being willing to receive, be open and just listen and, like Dennis Deaton said, maybe have a pad and paper nearby and just write down anything that comes to mind, cause that shows effort, that shows reverence, like anything that shows faith, anything that you're putting in my mind I'm going to write down and then I think that, as, as we've learned through revelation, the more reverence we can show, the greater revelation we can receive. So I love this idea of how you demonstrate reverence. Brandon, you know you occur to me as an individual who holds sacred things very sacred and are very reverent in your world.
Speaker 2:I try to be. You know it's a daily thing. You know Every day we're confronted with different things. But you know, ultimately, you know, the Holy Ghost itself is a still small voice. It's not loud and it in most of the time we don't well, I shouldn't say most, pretty much all the time we don't well, I shouldn't say most, pretty much all the time we don't. Now I'm not saying this doesn't happen, because I know people that have had this experience but we don't when we feel the holy ghost, we don't hear audible words. We don't hear words. But that's not really. We don't really need that because we know that the, the holy ghost, is still right, it's still small voice, right, but like it says in third nephi, right it will, it can pierce us right to the very center. That that's still small voice, right, um, but yeah, I think there's a lot of value in that, in that pondering and that meditation, for sure.
Speaker 1:Well, Brandon, thank you for being on the show. This has been such a phenomenal um discussion. I know I have been enlightened as as I think about reverence being this gift, this foundation, and how it connects to holiness and revelation, and, specifically, how the temple was built, primarily for us to develop that reverence. So you know, closing thoughts, and I feel like there's a quote or something that you have on screen or something that you want to get to Please share.
Speaker 2:There's actually, yeah, there is, and I thank you for that. There is two quotes from President Nelson that I think are very important when it comes to the temple Specifically. We've been talking about the temple a little bit, and this is the first one is his talk in October of 2018. It's Becoming Exemplary Latter-day Saints. This is what he says. Building and maintaining temples may not change your life, but spending your time in the temple surely will. To those who have long been absent from the temple, I encourage you to prepare and return as soon as possible. Then I invite you to worship in the temple and pray to feel deeply the. So that's the first one. The second one comes from October 2021 General Conference, which is the Temple and your Spiritual Foundation.
Speaker 2:This is what he says, and to each of you who has made temple covenants, I plead with you to seek prayerfully and consistently to understand temple covenants and ordinances. Spiritual doors will open. You will learn how to part the veil between heaven and earth. That's a huge promise. You will learn how to part the veil between heaven and earth, how to ask for God's angels to attend you and how better to receive direction from heaven. Your diligent efforts to do so will reinforce and strengthen your spiritual foundation. So so, yeah, there's no doubt that the temple is at the foundation of everything, right, reverence is literally the foundation of spirituality. So tying those together, like you said, right, right, um, you know, holiness, reverence, you know having the ability to receive personal revelation, it's all tied together for sure.
Speaker 1:So Thank you, brandon. I sure appreciate that. Final thought, I would love to ask you, as I've been doing lately, what would you want your generations to know about reverence after this discussion?
Speaker 2:after this discussion. Well, you know, like we kind of talked about before, I think it's you know, learning to become holy, learning to become reverent in our lives, is not a. It's not a. It doesn't just happen, it's, it's it. It takes time and I think for anybody that's struggling understand that it's a process.
Speaker 2:Life is a process, like learning how to become more like our Heavenly Father is a process, doesn't happen overnight, it's a lifelong process. I would say to people you know, and to my children, my own children try your best, be patient with yourself, because it's not easy. Right, this life wasn't meant to be easy, it was meant to be a challenge. But, like I was talking to my girls, my two daughters, today, we're having a little bit of scripture study today and you know, we, we all, chose to be here. Let's not forget this earth life experience is something that we chose to do, right and uh, and it is a process learning to become holy, learning to become, you know, to reverence sacred and holy things in our lives, that we the way we need to as a process. So, be patient with yourself. Um, give yourself a little bit of slack, you know, don't take it too seriously, but it is serious, but you know it's it's, it's a lifelong process.
Speaker 2:I think that's the message I would leave. Just little by by little, do your best every day and little by little you'll get to where you need to be Well thank you, Brandon.
Speaker 1:I sure appreciate you being on the show today.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me Appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Thanks again for listening to today's episode of Temple Bound. If you enjoyed today's show, make sure to join us over on Instagram at Temple Bound Podcast, to receive additional information as well as previews of our upcoming episodes. See you over there.
