Temple Bound

Every Temple Story with Toni Gaines & Janelle Hillyer

• Will • Season 1 • Episode 75

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This week on Temple Bound, host Will Humphreys sits down with Toni Gaines and Janelle Hillyer, the creators and hosts of the Every Temple Podcast. Together, they explore the fascinating intersection of architectural detail, local history, and the profound sacrifices made by Saints across the globe to bring these holy houses to life.

Toni and Janelle share how their deep dive into the "spirit of the building" has revealed a global tapestry of faith, proving that the restoration of the gospel isn’t just a past event, it is an unfolding evolution written in stone and glass.

In This Episode, You’ll Learn:

  • The Symbolism in the Details: Why local flora and culture (like the agave in Arizona or the lanterns in Tokyo) are intentionally woven into temple designs to connect the building to the people.
  • Miracles Behind the Iron Curtain: The incredible story of the Freiberg Germany Temple and how a request for "forgiveness" paved the way for a temple in a communist state.
  • The Global Family: Will shares his personal experiences at the Tokyo and Johannesburg temples, reflecting on how travel and temple worship act as a "cure for prejudice."
  • The Law of Sacrifice: Stories from the Philippines to Guatemala of Saints bailing out flooded basements and traveling for days to serve, illustrating how sacrifice creates a sense of "ownership" in the Lord’s house.
  • A "Restoration" of Every Temple: How the evolution of temple building mirrors our own spiritual growth, messy, iterative, and deeply personal.

Featured Temples in This Episode:

  • Gilbert Arizona Temple: Desert symbolism and the agave plant.
  • Tokyo Japan Temple: Finding a nature preserve in the middle of chaos.
  • Freiberg Germany Temple: A beacon of light in East Germany.
  • Manila Philippines Temple: Miraculous protection during a government coup.
  • Johannesburg South Africa Temple: The connecting link to Nauvoo.
  • Guatemala City Temple: A history of incredible distance and dedication.

Connect with Our Guests:

Toni Gaines and Janelle Hillyer are the hosts of the Every Temple Podcast, where they are on a mission to document the history, miracles, and unique details of every temple of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

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Why Temple Details Matter

SPEAKER_03

On today's show, we are joined by Tony and Janelle, who are the hosts of the Every Temple Podcast. This is a really cool episode because we're diving into the history, stories, and symbolism of various temples across the earth. We're going to Johannesburg, to Germany, to Gilbert, Arizona, and we're going to be talking about how in the construction of these temples we learn about the stories of the saints and how we're all connected as children of God. We also learn the correlation between how our five covenants that we receive in our endowment are related in the construction of these temples in a way that will change the way that you look at your temple. Enjoy the show. What you guys do that's so unique and special is you dive into something I've always been fascinated with, which is more of like how the spirit of the temple is found in the history of the temple, in the details of the building itself. Like there's so much effort that goes into these buildings and they never get appreciated until your show came around, right? Like there's there's this concept of like people go individually and they fall in love with their individual temple, but we're a global church. And what about these people in Africa? How are they going to learn about the Johannesburg temple like was on your show? Like there's just all these incredible things. So yeah, I'm excited that we're talking for sure.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's learning about it's so many things. It's learning about the history of the buildings, but it's also learning about the people that are part of that history and the prophets that are part of that history as well. We find them intertwined in each of these stories as well. And it's kind of a church history, a modern, modern church history, because we know a lot about restoration church history, but we don't know what's going on in the 80s. We don't know what's, you know, how did we end up here?

SPEAKER_03

So you're really like marking the history of the development of God's church on the earth in latter days through the development of the temple.

SPEAKER_02

It's really interesting. That's like one of the things that I'm really enjoying is learning the history of how the missionary how the gospel came to different countries and the missionary that work that goes on in other countries. And um it's the la I've said this a few times, but the global histories on the um church website is like so great, and there's so many inspirational stories, and it's just really neat to learn how missionary work has done started all around the world.

How History Deepens Worship

SPEAKER_03

Every temple podcast, it's this like this marker of history over time, and it's through the people, but like it's it's using these at temples because, like you said, we're we get so excited when those temples are announced, and everyone cheer to the point where like the brethren, I almost wonder if they stopped doing that recently because we're all kind of culturally taking this and running with it. But yeah, I love that you guys are using this as an opportunity to really mark the path because it's like as we look backwards, we can feel that inspiration, and as we look forwards, realize, man, there's so much more we can do. What have you guys learned as far as your your own temple worship and history service goes? What have you guys learned by doing this podcast?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, so much.

SPEAKER_02

I think it adds to what I already know and helps me appreciate what I already know more fully and um like just the symbolism of um a few different temples being like a beacon or a north star, um, it just solidifies to me that yeah, this is what is guiding me through my life is the temple.

SPEAKER_03

The more you learn about the details of the people in the temple and their history, the more you just are confirmed in what you already know that this is the path. It's a reassurance.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and I think if I'm going to a place like traveling or visiting something that somebody thinks is important, I want to know why they think it's important. And not, I mean, obviously the inside of the temple is always the same. And we don't want to cheapen that at all. Elder Bednar's kind of been a thorn in our side about it's not about the building, it's about what happens inside. And we get that. But it like it helps me to be more interested in the place if I know the history and if I know why it was built and why it was built there, and who helped build it and who designed it, and all those things.

Gilbert Temple And Local Symbolism

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I think that's a great point. And I and I I bet Elder Bednar would actually be on the same page with you on that because there is so much attention to detail that goes into these buildings and the people, and it's it's more about the people, why they chose those decisions, right? Like in the Gilbert Temple, the Gilbert Temple is a really cool, it's my temple. Like if you ask me what my favorite temple is, it's Gilbert Temple because it's the one closest to my home and therefore my heart, since I frequent it. And inside it, they use the agave plant. The agave plant was specifically chosen in all the different elements symbolically because of various reasons. And one of them is that the agave plant has these overlapping leaves. Structurally and visually, it's a very cool reminder of the family of God centering on the Trinity. And then when you go into the celestial room, there's there's vases and pots that are made to look like agave plants, and then the windows are these really cool, like long strips of glass that have leaves that intertwine, and it reminds me of family and connection and the desert that I live in. It reminds me of all these things. So yeah, I think there's something special about that because again, um, the people who who live near the temple will relate to that symbolism as very personal to them. And I think that's the point is that these things are created. So when we travel, there's a chance to kind of get to know the the saints in different parts of the world by doing that. Have you guys gone to other, as you guys have done these episodes on their temples, have you gone and visited them and learned about these people?

SPEAKER_00

Um well, it turns out Janelle's been to every temple already.

SPEAKER_03

She's either been there or Janelle, Janelle, you've been to all the temples.

SPEAKER_00

She she like she just comes out with, oh yeah, I've been to the Tokyo Temple. I was like, What? Like, that's crazy.

SPEAKER_02

And then it makes us sound like a world traveler, and I'm totally not.

SPEAKER_00

She's like, Yeah, I've talked from the Seattle Temple. Like, what when did you do that? Anyway.

Tokyo Temple And Global Unity

SPEAKER_03

Well, let's talk about the Tokyo Temple for a minute. Let's talk about that just for a beat because that's part of what I know my audience is going to want to hear about. So, yeah, let's dive in. You did a whole episode on the Tokyo Temple. What were some of the key elements on that temple that were kind of unique or fundamental?

SPEAKER_02

Um yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Well, uh, I haven't been there, but um, what I really love is that it's across the street from a giant like nature preserve. And so my husband and son were there last month, and they took a video of them walking home from church through that preserve and then coming out and facing the temple. And I thought that was amazing. And then next to the temple, they have a beautiful little fountain with um what were they called? The Japanese lanterns that connect heaven and earth. Yeah, that's what there's they symbolize.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, that that's what I was gonna say was like that lantern there is jet um talking connecting the heaven to the earth and the generations and our families, and it's just a another symbolism and reminder of what the temple is. And the fact that the Tokyo Temple is like in the middle of a city, there's yes, there's a nature preserve right beside it, but there's like lots of like um wires, like like pictures you see of the Tokyo Temple are um photoshopped. They photoshop all the wires out, and and it's in the middle of a city. And but once you get on the grounds there, it's just so peaceful and quiet. It's like a miracle that um it's such a um the temple just the grounds themselves bring peace even in the midst of all that's going on around it.

SPEAKER_03

So yes, Tokyo is the largest city in the world by far. And um, I had the privilege of being at that Tokyo temple last year, and it was an interesting experience uh for all those reasons, the nature preserve, how it lends to this like you know, rest in the middle of the chaos feel. And that fountain is very special, and I know what you're talking about. It's a very small fountain, but when you're standing in front of it and you're listening to the water as it trickles down and you see these Japanese figures, the lantern and the connection between heaven and earth, you feel connected to the Japanese people. Like it's it's neat because I, you know, Mark Twain said it. Travel, I'm gonna butcher this quote, but travel is the cure for racism or prejudice or whatever he said, because when you travel and you spend time with other cultures, you see yourself in them. And what's cool about the temples and these histories that you guys do is it allows us to feel and see the history and our connection as children of God to them, not just as human beings, as eternal sons and daughters of Heavenly Father. And so when we go to the temple there, we we had the chance to go do some baptisms inside. And when we went, I went with my three boys. The Japanese culture is incredibly punctual, they are very formal, very kind to a fault. The way I describe it is that if four people came to the stop sign at the same time, no one's moving because every no one's going to like everyone's like, no, you go, no, you go, like very kind. And I mean that as a joke, they're just the most loving people. When you go into the baptism font, they are ready for you on time and they are very structured on how you operate. And the whole feel helped me feel closer to God. I think it expanded for me the connection that I had to my brothers and sisters in a way that made me feel more of a human, this global family that the way I think any parent would want their kids to feel connected to.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah. And learning like those people go to the temple just like we do. Like they learn the same things and make the same covenants and have make promises that we make all as well. It's it's the same gospel, and they are people and they are children of God.

SPEAKER_02

And they're all every time the people are just so excited and thankful to have a temple built in their area, and it it's just the same every time. And I love the unity that the temple brings. Like, yeah, we're all children of God. Everybody has the same purpose when it comes to the temple, and we're just unified in that purpose, and I really love it.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, it's it's again a connecting piece and tool for us, and we don't have to go travel and see the temples, but there is value in like making that initiative, right?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think people talk a lot about like when I was born, we could have visited every temple, you know, but now it's impossible. I mean, we don't visiting every temple has minimal value, but if you want to learn about every temple, sure, that's great.

SPEAKER_03

Because you're learning about the human, you know, God's not a good thing.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you're learning more this way than if we had traveled the world to go visit every temple. Like that just sounds like a lot of rental cars and hotel rooms.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01

You know, I have a question for you.

Freiburg Temple And Power Of Forgiveness

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, absolutely. Oh yeah, travel's so fun for those who love it. For those who don't, not so much. But for you guys, let me ask you, what was um what's a temple and episode that you did that surprised you? Like, what was a temple that you learned about that was just like, wow, that's really eye-opening.

SPEAKER_02

Uh I really liked the Freiburg Germany temple.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Um, I I think there's behind, like, I think there's so much more that goes on behind some of these temples than we can find information for. And um Freiburg was one where it was in East Germany in before the wall was taken down, and um people kept trying to leave to go to the temple, and the government wouldn't let them. And um they finally they got sick of them trying to get visas to leave to go to the temple, that they were like, why don't you just build a temple here? And duh. I'm like, no, I don't think anybody even thought to ask. I don't think anybody would have said thought they would have said yes, but they offered to have the temple built there. And that is such a huge miracle, and and just the whole miracle of what um, oh, I don't remember the man's name, but he did a lot of work um trying to help people get to the temple, just talking to government officials about what the temple is, and um just so many miracle after miracle after miracle, and and the forgiveness and love that he would have had to have against um for these um government officials, and it's it's a miracle so layered for sure.

SPEAKER_03

When did that happen? When so so let me make sure I got the story right. So there was a temple that existed in East Germany, was this prior to World War II?

SPEAKER_00

So this is 1983, 82.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, I see.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and the wall came down in like 90 or 89. Yeah, so yeah, they just they were trying to just get out, they had the gospel, but they couldn't get to the temple because it was in Switzerland. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And so Oh, I see. So they were in East, they're in East, they're in East Germany with the wall, and they're they're members of the church trying to get to Switzerland to go to the temple, and that was just driving the the government officials. That's what you were saying, Genel. Sorry, yeah. Oh no, I just I this is for me. I'm sure the audience is following, but it's a matter of like, so they were just the government's like, why don't we just build one here? So did are you saying that the church built a temple in East Germany before the wall came down?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, 85. I think okay, because I said it was the year I was born.

SPEAKER_03

So and now half my audience feels I'm just kidding. So 80, so they build this temple in East Germany, and then that is fascinating. Keep going.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, well, it was Brother Burkhart. He was like the mission president, but he was kind of the de facto leader of the church in East Germany. Like that's who they government recognized as the president of the church, and he just did so many things, and then they found like a city that was willing to accept another temple or a temple. One city was just like, no, no, thank you. We'll make this so hard for you that it will not be worth it. And so they found Freiburg, which was so happy to have another place of worship.

SPEAKER_02

They were having a celebration of some sort of about to celebrate like 900 years of being a city.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And they were like, this can be part of it. And then they found a location that was beautiful and just happened to have a freeway built next to it later on. And it was it was the government was offering the land so cheap that the church doubled it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00

Well, the money was going to some private citizens, but it was being sold by the government. I don't know how that works. But they they said they said it'll be the this many cents per acre, and the church was like, uh, we'll just double that because that doesn't seem fair at all. Yeah. But it was still like only a few thousand dollars. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

The acreage for the temple cost in the thousands of like low thousands of dollars.

SPEAKER_00

I want to say like twice. It could have been, yeah. And then they worked to get natural gas instead of a coal plant. I mean, it was just a whole thing, the hardest temple to build, I bet, next to Salt Lake.

SPEAKER_03

Well, yeah, I think building a temple in East Germany before the Berlin Wall came down had to have been an incredible challenge, but it's interesting how the Lord worked. In in you know, it's in it's listen, I don't believe that cause correlation is causation in every case, but it's interesting to note that just just a I think it was four years later in 1989 was when the Berlin Wall collapses. So you have the gospel in the temple are in on the other side of the wall, and then shortly thereafter that wall collapses.

SPEAKER_00

And they were so sure that at some point the temple would be raided, that it would be um illegally, well, like illegally searched, that the the Gestapo or whatever, the police would come in and try and you know, what's the word I'm yeah, go through all the rooms they're not supposed to go through to look for contrabands and so they were the church was not not sure that they should build the whole temple. They were like, what if we just built an endowment house like Salt Lake had for a long time? If it gets um broken into in some way, then they can still use the the room if it's attached to a branch building or something. They could still use the space and then um yeah, but it never has happened. Never that never happened. It never did.

SPEAKER_02

No, I think that the brother did a really good job at working with the government explaining everything, and I think that they weren't obviously weren't afraid that we were doing illegal stuff. I c I guess. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

He did he was told years before that by President Kimball that if he could forgive these bureaucrats, these officials, then they would um open doors for the church and they would make things happen. And so he it took him several years to forgive and accept them as children of God. And then when he did that, they came around and they, you know, helped him facilitate make building this temple.

SPEAKER_03

So he was promised that if he could forgive these government officials, and so he had, I mean, isn't that powerful? Because I can only imagine what those government officials had what he had seen, government officials, maybe not those exact ones, but what government officials had done over the last who knows decades. You know, this is a person who watched if they weren't there during the actual war and the the fallout afterwards, they were definitely part of that aftermath for decades where that that type of control was exerted. And so I can only imagine it's interesting the spiritual lesson I'm learning right now as I hear you guys talk about that story of how we have to have forgiveness before we can receive the blessings, the relief, the peace, and the connection to God that we need. That's a very literal representation of that concept. He had to forgive those government officials so that generations could be blessed on both sides of the veil because the temple was built afterwards.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, very powerful.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Did you say it took him a couple years to do that? Yeah. I can't imagine what it would have been like for him because that's scary. It's really scary when somebody has like uh a power and control over your life. And depending on how you act and stuff, it will depend on how I don't know. I can't imagine living that way, and that really would have taken a lot of faith for him.

SPEAKER_03

That was more more than I have to be able to have the ability to forgive someone while you're still under their direct control, and who knows what those individual how his family had suffered or people he'd lost or been or anyway. So I'm very grateful for that story. That's that's the kind of thing that I think is so beautiful about your podcast. When you learn about the the history of these temples, it really is this where it's kind of where that temple and family history meet together, right? When you learn about the history of the temple and the history of the people, you're learning both about temple covenants and family history and they inter interlock there in those histories. Um I love that. Is there another story from another temple that was impactful for you guys?

SPEAKER_00

I don't know if this one would count, but I do want to say that Seoul, South Korea, had a similar story. They were not allowed to leave the country to go to the temple. Their nearest temple would have been Tokyo, or before that, Hawaii. And they just were not, after the Korean War, they were not allowed to leave. And so having a temple built there, they didn't have as many, I mean, we didn't see the evidence of as many as much red tape, but they were and um not allowed to leave until and so that's why they built the temple there.

SPEAKER_02

And that was um, it wasn't because of a communist government, it was more just um they didn't uh they were trying to recover from a war. Yeah, and they didn't want their people leaving the country, and so um, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So the saints again were what were requesting the temple, and so they the solution was for the church to put one in Seoul. By the way, that's the same year.

SPEAKER_00

I just looked it up, it was 1985, the same year that the German East the East German temple was so we've just studied both of those recently, and um so those are fresh, but there's been so many good stories from temples, and there's a lot of um inspirational stories.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, I I I tried going through my past notes. I mean, there's always inspirational stories of people donating and fundraising. Like, um, I think it was Sao Paulo, he a man took his gold bridge out of his mouth to donate and handed it to the missionaries.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and the missionaries were like, um, no thanks. And he's like, Don't deny me blessings, this is my donation. And so what the missionaries did is they told Elder Faust about it, and he said, I'll just buy it. And he kept that bridge in his office as a symbol to remind him of the sacrifice of the saints. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Wow. Well talk speaking of sacrifice, what are some examples of sacrifice that you guys have learned about in different temples of what people have had to do to make temples happen?

SPEAKER_00

So so far in our research, the the members are always asked to donate and fundraise. In every temple. And so even like Kirtland Nauvoo, there's penny drives, and then the Logan, I think, was a nickel drive, and Manti was a 50 cent drive, and temple eggs. The sisters would save their eggs that were laid on Sunday. And I don't know if they would donate the money from those eggs. I'm not sure. We're not sure how that worked, but the temple eggs were, they came up a couple times. The um Jordan River Temple was completely funded by members for several years. The maintenance and everything, the construction, the maintenance, the land was donated. And it's uh one of the biggest temples in the world.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, some of these poor countries too, they asked members to donate money. And so members would sell things or prolong buying things or doing other things and to donate their money to build these temples. And even they were um a man like uh didn't eat lunch for a year to and donated the money that he would have spent on lunch. And a woman um stopped smoking and donated the money she would have spent on cigarettes.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And just uh I lost everything. One of in one of the island nations, they won no, this was to go to the temple. Yeah, a lot of people are sacrificing to get to the temple. Yeah. So they wanted to go to the temple so badly they sold everything in their home and the construction materials for their home. Yeah. Went to the temple and came back and started from scratch. But then a hurricane hit and everybody lost everything. And so they said, Well, at least we may have lost everything as well, but at least we got our temple covenants taken care of. So everybody was starting over at that point.

SPEAKER_03

It's amazing the connection I'm learning right now between sacrifice and temple. It's a law, it's one of the covenants we make, is the covenant, the law of sacrifice, or as we have heard in a previous episode, the love of sacrifice. Why do you guys think in all these cases church members are asked to sacrifice or have had to sacrifice in order to get the temple even present? Why do you think that has been a consistent theme in all your research?

SPEAKER_00

I think it's just to make them feel that they're part of it. One boy at in Mantai or something, he said, I paid my nickel for the nickel drive, and I I would like to touch the temple. They were under construction, and so the man picked him up and put him on the scaffold so he could see the work that was happening. They want, they need to be part of it in some way. And I think I hesitate to say it, but I think that maybe something we're missing these days is that what are we sacrificing for our temples?

SPEAKER_03

So you're saying there's more meaning behind that because they sacrifice, and you said ownership, like like that's my temple because I kind of contributed to that.

SPEAKER_02

Also, I mean the church didn't have the funds like they do now. Like they didn't have the funds to build these um be big, beautiful structures everywhere around the world, and um, and so they they needed the fundraising at the time, which is not the case anymore.

SPEAKER_03

So I mean, that's just logistically, but yeah, well, yeah, and it's it's powerful because when when I've never seen this parallel before, but the the five covenants that we make when we receive our endowments are present in their cyclic. Like we go through these over and over, we learn and we grow, we through repentance, we're always recorrecting our path. And that's exactly how these journeys go for building the temples as well. So whether we're building a life dedicated to the savior to be constructed like metaphorically as types of saviors to become like him, so does the same process exist in the building of these temples, and they're the same concepts obedience. We believe that there's a prophet of the Lord saying, here's where we should build the next temple. Sacrifice. Members are asked to donate, members are asked to give their time and energy. And in the early temples, uh Salt Lake, they're actually physically, the members are actually building them themselves, and all the way to consecration, where people are pulling bridges of gold out of their mouth, they're giving everything they've been given in some shape or form to the building, the establishment of Zion. And so it's a pretty powerful concept to think about these covenants as just as like gravity, they just exist. And in whether we want to go draw closer to Christ and construct our lives or a temple, it follows a similar pattern.

Trials Miracles And What Temples Are

SPEAKER_01

That's true.

SPEAKER_03

So my next question was like obviously there's been challenges in building those temples. You mentioned the Berlin temple was a temple that Berlin, sorry, the um Fred, yeah, the East German temple. That temple um had incredible challenges. Is there any other challenges you he you can think of from your research that have occurred that were were significant in the establishment of some some of those temples? Maybe even the earlier one.

SPEAKER_02

Um Philippines.

SPEAKER_03

So the manila, which which one?

SPEAKER_02

Um, so like they were able to build it, but um and it was dedicated. I I should have read through the whole story, but they were having problems with the government and the and militant groups. And the um Yeah, there was a coup.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And the military kind of used with the government, there was a coup during the development of the temple.

SPEAKER_00

It was after it was built. It was like in the 90s or early 2000s. But they were the one of the groups, maybe the rebels, was camped, if not next to the temple, in the across the street. Yeah. Oh, and yeah. And then they were gonna use some of the the temple president came out and s and begged them, like, don't come in the temple, but you can use any of the other buildings. And so they I they did or didn't, and yeah, I mean they were fully prepared for the temple to be blown up, bombed.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, because there was there was bombs, there was bullets, there was there was lots of like war type stuff going on right on and around the temple grounds. And I think that they only got like one bullet hole or something. Yeah. But it was a miracle that the building was not entered by people and that it wasn't destroyed at all. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Truly. And so I've been to Manila, and I will tell you, I know exactly that that revolution, the coup that you're talking about, because I stayed at a hotel nearby, and then the hotel preserved these planks were not just some bullets, but like many bullets had been entered because there was so much occupying of buildings for safety from both sides, and so the entire city, they would choose the bigger, nicer buildings to protect themselves in. And there is there a better, more beautiful building than the temple? Of course not. And for so no, for it to never be see, these are the things that like when you hear on the outside to someone who's not sure about our faith, they're like, Yeah, that's just a really good coincidence. But as my son says on his mission, after so many significant coincidences, you have to start questioning if there's not something else going on.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And there's just so it's interesting that that that building never got invaded.

SPEAKER_02

And and yeah, the the miracles that happen on every temple just it's like it just it's amazing. And like, yeah, you know that it's not just by chance. Um, oh, it was the London Temple right before the open house. They had a big rainstorm.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and it was flooding the basement. Yeah, and so you've got President Hinckley in his pajamas and the temple president and the mission president down there bucketing water out of the stairwell to just so they could have the open house. Or was it the dead dedication? Anyway, one of those days that it was gonna open, yeah. The night before, they were those were the men that were doing the work. Was President Hinckley a prophet at the time? He was not even an apostle. He was on the temple committee. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So they're sitting there like just you know, so people, you know, people critics of the church would look at that and go, Well, come on, if this is a temple of the Lord, why would God let it rain the night before and fill the basement? What would you guys say about that?

SPEAKER_00

That they are temples made by men. I mean, the Samoa stuff happens. The Appia Samoa temple burned down. But here's the miracle the angel moroni did not burn, it did not melt, and it's made of fiberglass. Like if you look at the pictures, the flames went all the way up, it burned everything, but the moroni was fine and reusable. They reused it on the new temple.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

It's uh the temples are not gonna be perfectly protected, but pretty much they are.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, well, yeah, and what happens inside is what's important, right? And that we um the outside isn't uh it is sacred, but like as like Elder Bednar said, it's what happens inside, it's the covenants, yeah, that make a difference.

Kirtland To Today Restoration In Motion

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, well, and what is a temple? You know, a temple is nothing more than a physical construct to house a spiritual experience where the spirit of the Lord can dwell. All a temple is is a physical construct where the spirit of the Lord can dwell. I just want to say that really loudly for the audience because our bodies are temples, and our bodies are they not fraught with challenge. Do we not face disease? And you know, whereas a physical building experiences natural disaster, do we not experience disease uh and and limitation? Do we not experience physical pain? Do we not go through those elements? If anything, we should take comfort in seeing how the physical temples and the opening and all these elements play in to causing challenge for the saints for our good. The more we sacrifice, the more we love. The more so that those things don't happen. It could be argued that God allowed the flooding to happen in that temple so that those saints have an opportunity to remember what it's like to physically put their hands on buckets because they love God and bail that water out the way the savior bails us out spiritually. It's it's all in that faith piece. And I think it's amazing as you guys learn about the temples as you're as you're talking about it, how I feel like I'm learning about what goes on inside more by understanding those physical challenges and those elements that the people experience in in building them. What were some of the when we think about um the temples in the early days? Is there anything that stands out with those early temples in terms of either the challenges or like what is after all your history? Because I've I've obviously we spend some time learning in the Doctrine and Covenants about um, you know, the earliest temples, and you just modern day temples, it feels like they're that was a very special time in the development of those temples. What can you say about them?

SPEAKER_00

Um I will just say that our earliest episodes are not our best. So maybe at some point we need to go record Kirtland and Nauvoo. But those temples could because I just don't think we emphasize the miracles that happened.

SPEAKER_02

I agree.

SPEAKER_00

The miracles that happened in those temples. We we didn't know what we were doing and how to present those things, but they were really amazing. Christ came to Kirtland, and Nauvoo was just so elemental in their growth and progression, and it was just they were miracles that they were built, and and then they had to walk away from them, and that's heartbreaking.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and like seeing like the Kirtland Temple was built to bring um to restore the full keys of the priesthood, and um the Nauvoo temple, it was built for people to get their own endowments, but also they started learning about the baptism for the dead, and um that was so exciting to them that they're like, we can save our ancestors too, and it that is just a miracle. And they just ran to the river, yeah, and yeah, and they just they started going to the river and just doing baptisms for the dead for their ancestors and do starting to do the family history search, you know, asking their relatives, what are the names of all our ancestors? And and and then in St. George when they started doing like endowments for um for their ancestors, like like the evolution of it and and them having to um make um a script. Yeah, a script of what happens in the endowment, and just like the evolution of of the temple itself and the ceremony, like and then they go from doing live performances to making a video, and we talk about that in in the episodes where they transition from temples where they have live um narration to video, yeah, and it it's really it's actually really cool seeing the evolution of the temple. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I love you know, when you say evolution, I hear restoration, yes, like it's there's those are two identical words in my mind evolution, restoration, evolution, because we I think again when we think about the way we all initially think about God and creation, we think of it as this like precise engineer on a blueprint, measuring to the to the and and what's funny is I'm betting that's still true, but the way we experience it in mortality is messy. Building and constructing and and building these things, it's it's a messy experience. And and so as we are receiving revelation and evolving, I love that part of our church being that it's being restored. It hasn't been restored, it's being restored as we speak. Revelation is one of our foundational beliefs. So that as those early saints come in, and I can it's one of the greatest testimony strengtheners for me is thinking about how these early saints, so young in this new era of the gospel of Jesus Christ, are coming together and they are sacrificing everything just to be a member when the world wasn't wealthy, when the lifestyle that people experienced was by all means by today's standard, the extreme extremities of poor. We're told to like, and now you're supposed to do these buildings, you're supposed to create extra sacrifice to build these buildings, and so they do because they feel it in their hearts and they choose to have faith in what they can't see, what they couldn't see back then, especially as they were walking away from Kirkland, yeah, Navu. They couldn't see a day where you and I get to stand together and look at 300 plus temples dotting the earth, representing all humanity, all of God's children, they couldn't have possibly have known, but they had felt, and so they worked and sacrificed nonetheless. Again, going back to those covenants of sacrifice obedience. They they obeyed because they loved, yeah, yeah, and they sacrificed all so that we, you and I, could have everything that we have now in our temples, everywhere around the world.

SPEAKER_02

And I see that like every time we do a podcast, the people are just so excited to do things for their ancestors, just like the pioneers. The excitement is still the same that they realize they can go and do these ordinances for their ancestors, and it's still exciting.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, it is so cool how it's it's just again, it's been revealed little by little, precept upon precept over time. And I can only imagine what it was like for them on that first, you know, line upon line, the first line, go build a temple.

SPEAKER_00

Right, yeah, and not knowing not knowing what they're gonna get from it. They're just like told some vague promises about power and glory, and and they're like, Right, okay, but and they just knew they just the level of faith that they had.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it's amazing.

SPEAKER_03

You know, I was when our recent trip to Africa, uh, we had the privilege of going to the Johannesburg Temple, and that was an interesting history to learn about. And um, it reminded me as I met with people in these orphanages who have just had the worst version of hell. There is no hell that we could ever imagine that isn't actually experienceable here in earth. And oh, and these people had gone through it. The most vile, horrible experiences you can imagine. And for them, they they they are the most loving and kind, and they praise God more than anyone else. Like it's just they see the beauty in all things, and the temple is like this beacon of hope, this light on a hill. And I I keep reminding myself that like as we as we go to the temple, what a privilege it is to have it, the way that we have it. I just hope I never take take that for granted. You know what I mean? Like there's just the way that people have had to sacrifice for years and go through horrible experiences. Um, now, real quick, before we we wrap up, I do have to ask you about the Johannesburg Temple. Do you guys have any any things, any thoughts on that temple that you would like to share?

SPEAKER_00

Well, I want to ask you, did you see a um they say they have a Navu temple stone at the front gate, but we couldn't find it on any pictures. We don't know how big, but we don't know anything about it. There's a Nauvoo temple stone somewhere on a gate at the Johannesburg Temple. Original Nauvoo. Um, so that was cool. It's the first temple that's made with brick on the exterior. So we um often end up with more questions at the end of a podcast than we have answers for. And so that's one of them.

SPEAKER_03

And then the question being if where the Navu stone is. Do you know that there's a stone from the original Nau temple at the Johannesburg Temple?

SPEAKER_00

And how did it get there? And why did they include it in the gate? And you know, I we are so comfortable with asking questions. You don't you don't always know everything. Yeah, um, but Johannesburg is is really pretty. Did you notice the neighborhood around it? Is it like a wealthy, safe? Like, how would you describe it?

SPEAKER_03

Not not those things. It was it'd be maybe it was for for that area, but we we were we went over at night. Um yeah, we were doing some charity work in Mozambique, and we were we were coming back in a car at night with my boys, and I was getting scared. And then the in that area I felt safe. Like we were waiting for our Uber back to our hotel. I didn't feel nervous, but getting there at least was pretty scary. And there I couldn't really tell you because it was so dark.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, that makes sense. Um, anything else about Johannesburg? Yeah, it's the first one with brick on the exterior, first temple to have bricks and um first one in Africa too. Really, and it was the most remote temple from any other temple and from Salt Lake. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yes, for a long time it was very special. Um, this is more selfish. I served we mentioned in Guatemala City. Is there anything about the Guatemala City temple that stands out to you guys? Or the history of the city?

SPEAKER_00

What I loved about the history is how focused they were on the native populations, and they oh, this couple, the this couple that started the church down there, they were just like so strong, and they would invite everyone to Sunday school, natives or white people or whoever, and then she is the one that introduced a three-hour block. Yeah, because people have people have to travel.

SPEAKER_03

Because back then you were doing you're doing sessions throughout the day.

SPEAKER_00

Instead of doing like the old Sunday method or coming back during the week for primary, whatever, she was like, Because they're traveling so much, could we please just have three hours of Sunday in a row? So that's where that came from.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. And I think this is the one where they traveled like through the rainforest on a boat through the on the Amazon and uh to try and get to the dedicated. No, no, not that was that was oh, that was a different one?

SPEAKER_00

That was Apollo, but or Peru. Because that wouldn't have been the Amazon. But Guatemala was fascinating. The history of well, they're everywhere.

SPEAKER_02

There's at this point, there's people traveling from days for days to get to the temple.

SPEAKER_03

It's funny because it's like it's like ice cream, it's all sweet, all the stories are sweet, but the flavors are just a little bit different. You know, that they sacrifice because of the rain in London, they sacrifice for the distance in Guatemala, they sacrifice in different ways in different areas, especially the earlier saints. They were the they were the first ones to put the salt in the cream and actually make the ice cream like they were all in that space together. Either way, it's a beautiful connective story that tells us the the restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ through temples is one of the single most beautiful analogies I've heard. So I really appreciate you guys being on the show. And um, before I go, I'd like to do some rapid fire questions with you guys if you're open for it. Okay, real easy, low-hanging fruit. If you had to pick a favorite temple, which was it?

SPEAKER_00

I think we both liked Idaho Falls. What?

SPEAKER_03

Well, we we I love that temple. It is gorgeous with the river.

SPEAKER_00

I just we did go to Idaho Falls before we recorded our episode, and that's probably the first time or only time we've done that. Yeah. We went together to Idaho Falls, but it has the coolest oxen ever. Yeah. And what does that mean? Oh, look at a picture of these oxen. They are phenomenal. They're like brutalist and metallic.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, they're they're so cool.

SPEAKER_00

They're and they're this it's the same sculptor that's done many other things, but on this one, he just really I really like it. Janelle really liked the World Room mural.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, the murals. Uh the murals in these old older temples are just uh obviously works of art. They're really amazing. The world room in the Idaho Falls Temple is like uh a settlers. It's just a depiction of settl uh western settlers. Pioneers. Pioneers. And um the world room in the Manti Temple is really magnificent uh from Minerva Tyshart. Uh I would have to say I don't know if favorites, I have to say cardston.

SPEAKER_00

Well she's getting her Canada card remote.

SPEAKER_02

Because that's where uh I was married. Oh I love that. Yeah, but I I it's so hard to pick a favorite temple. It is.

SPEAKER_03

That's what we're doing what you guys do now for a passion project. You can you fall in love with every temple.

SPEAKER_00

If we were really professional, we'd say the one we're working on now.

SPEAKER_03

Which is Denver's great. Well, there's so many there's so many different you know nuances to each one. The Mesa temple was what are where I grew up coming from Texas. I was in El Paso. We drive six hours, you know, the big sacrificial bus ride for six hours compared to others who have like hike for days. But yeah, it was like a big thing for us at that time in our stage of life, and it was like they have the this beautiful mural inside of of um Native Americans and Americans coming together. It's just really cool. But guys, I'm I love that answer. Uh, what would you guys want your so right now? This the last thing I want to question asking you guys is this what would you say this is to your descendants, you know, down the road, your kids are gonna be watching this. What would you tell them as to like why you decided to take this project on and why you love the temple so much? Janelle, let's go to your point.

SPEAKER_02

Um I guess I would say like this is it is really cool, all that we do and learn, and I really, really love it that everything that I learn always points me back to what happens inside, and it inspires me to love the temple more and to remember why we go to the temple and to remember those covenants and to keep them. It it does point me to Jesus Christ more, and I would hope my descendants would always have a desire to attend the temple.

SPEAKER_03

Love that.

SPEAKER_00

What I tell my descendants now, by which I mean my children, I say, Do you want to know a temple fun fact? And they say, No, we know all the temple fun facts. But um, no, I think it's just if you love something, you want to learn more about it. And if you love you, you know, you just want to do that deep dive of what every temple dedication prayer says and what you know what the prophets are saying and what the prophet picked for this temple or that temple. It's just like if you are interested in something, you should learn everything you can about it.

SPEAKER_03

Love it, guys. Well, thank you so much for being on Temple Bound. Um, how can people get a hold of your podcast? How do they how do they find you guys?

SPEAKER_00

I think we're searchable everywhere podcasts are. If we're not, please tell us. But um we're on YouTube now and Spotify.

SPEAKER_03

Every Temple Podcast is every Temple Podcast. All right, guys. Thank you so much for being on the show. We sure appreciate you taking some time to be with us. Thank you. It was fun. Thanks again for listening to today's episode of Temple Bound. If you enjoyed today's show, make sure to join us over on Instagram at Temple Bound Podcast to receive additional information as well as previews of our upcoming episodes. See you over there.

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Will Humphreys

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