Understanding Our Divine Identity and Destiny with Wade & Jennifer Beckstead

What if the key to overcoming addiction, making better choices, and living with more purpose came down to one thing, knowing who you truly are? In this episode, Will sits down with close friends Wade & Jennifer Beckstead to dive deep into Tad Callister's powerful talk on our divine identity and eternal destiny. From the concept of spiritual identity theft to the logic of "like begets like," this conversation will challenge and inspire you to see yourself, and everyone around you through God's eyes.

They explore why we are not just creations of God but His literal offspring, what that means for our potential to become like Him, and how the temple is the very place where that transformation begins. Plus, Wade and Jen get refreshingly personal about parenting, marriage, faith, and the spiritual gifts they've had to earn the hard way.

What You'll Learn in This Episode:

• Why President Nelson's answer to pornography addiction was "teach them their identity and purpose" and why that's more powerful than it sounds
• The difference between being a creation of God vs. an offspring of God, and why it completely changes your sense of worth and potential
• How "spiritual identity theft" works and how to recognize it in your own life
• What five categories of witnesses, scripture, early Christians, poets and authors, logic, and history, teach us about our quest for godhood
• Why C.S. Lewis said "there are no ordinary people" and what that means for how we treat others
• How ordinances and covenants in the temple are the keys to unlocking godly power in our lives
• Why spiritual gifts are not just given, they are earned, and how to seek them intentionally
• The surprising way temple robes connect to a physical therapy research study on visualization and growth

Leave a comment below! What spiritual gift are you currently seeking or working on? We'd love to hear from you. Don't forget to Subscribe to Temple Bound for your weekly dose of eternal perspective! 

Resources & References Mentioned:

• Talk: Our Divine DNA by Tad Callister https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/tad-r-callister/our-identity-and-our-destiny/
• Book: Look to Me in Every Thought by Dennis Deaton
• Scripture: D&C 84:20–21
• Scripture: John 17 "That they may be made one"

Transcript

Creation Or Offspring Opening Paradox

SPEAKER_00 0:05

I have a question for you before we get started. Can a painting become the painter? Can a building become the architect? Of course not. But today on Temple Bound, Wade and Jennifer Bextead walk with me through the distinction that changes everything. The difference between being a creation of God and being an offspring of God. One of those words has a ceiling and the other doesn't. Today we're unpacking a talk by Tad Callister that was sparked by a question about addiction and an answer from President Nelson that just might be the most important thing any of us could ever learn about ourselves. You're going to want to hear this one. Wade and Jen, welcome to Temple Bound. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you. Thanks for having us. Yeah, I'm so excited to have such good friends going over this wonderful talk. Why did you guys pick this talk?

SPEAKER_01 0:54

Honestly, we read a lot of talks in preparing, trying to figure out what to do. This one just resonated. Who are we? And that really defines um the choices that we make in this life. So that's the big reason.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

Yeah, it's a powerful thing. And the talk really starts with that, right? They were talking about um, Jen, do you remember? I came, I'm actually annoying how to deal with people struggling with pornography. But what was that about?

SPEAKER_03 1:19

So the question was how can we help those struggling with pornography? And the late President Nelson, he stood and replied, teach them their identity and purpose. And that resonated with Ted Collister. And so he was the one that's he's the one that gave this talk.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

You know, when I first heard that, I was a little bit like, um, I I I knew that was accurate. I get that. But in the world of pornography, like it really didn't land initially when I started reading this as powerful as it became by the end of the talk. And I think this is powerful because when you talk about pornography, I think that's a beautiful example of the worst-case scenario of addiction where we lose ourselves. Yes. Any type of addiction, we lose our self-identity, we lose our agency. And so I think that's a really powerful way that it kicked it off was this idea of like to start and first and foremost, that foundation is to teach them their identity and their purpose. So tell me a little bit more about that, Jen.

SPEAKER_03 2:13

Okay. So it says teach them their identity and purpose. And I feel like that if we know our identity and a correct division of our destiny, then we'll be able to live a better life and make better choices. If we don't know where we're going, how are we going to be able to make good choices in our life?

Spiritual Identity Theft And Dark Thoughts

SPEAKER_00 2:30

I love that. It's like an end in mind, like knowing that. So it's not just identity, it's destiny, like where we're meant to go and all those different elements. I love that. Very cool. So we start with that piece of like our identity and our destiny. And our identity. Um, yeah, he talks about that, doesn't he? Thoughts, Wade.

SPEAKER_01 2:48

Yeah, my initial thoughts of this were how today's world, we always talk about identity theft. Oh, my credit card was stolen, whatever information was stolen. But there's a spiritual identity theft that's going on. Satan tries to persuade us that we're not important, that we're not sons and daughters of our um Father in heaven. And it, I mean, we've talked about this so many times in Sunday school in Moses. Um, Satan comes and says, son of man. And then when God comes and he calls him his son. So to me, it I mean, it's always been going on, but identity theft that Satan tries to destroy who we are to prevent us from achieving our ultimate goal.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

Yeah, I I love that you said that, Wade. I love that whole concept of like a spiritual identity theft because he's trying to get us to forget who we are. And he's trying to get us thinking that we're not destined to go somewhere great. Um, did you have a quote ready there, Jen?

SPEAKER_03 3:50

Or I was just going to say that also they teach um if we teach that we're more than just creations of God, we need to teach that we're offspring of God. And that is our true identity. We're not just creations.

SPEAKER_00 4:03

And that's kind of where we get into this topic, because he talks earlier about our identity isn't that we were created, but we are offspring. What's the difference?

SPEAKER_03 4:14

Well, can an a painting become an artist or can a building become an architect? No, it can't. So that would be a creation, but an offspring is a child, and just like a little chick can grow up to be a chicken, just like it's a hem, just like it's mother, um, we are offspring of God. So we have the potential to become just like God.

SPEAKER_00 4:38

That's powerful. Now, I think most people, when they're listening to this, they l all, all almost all faiths will would agree that we're sons and daughters of God. But this topic is about what that son or daughter of God is meant to become, which is like God, which basically we're talking about today. And this is a recurring theme within the temple, is this idea of becoming gods. So obviously, this is one of those topics that some would see as a little controversial because people who are outside the church look at this part a little bit off and think, oh, there's something wrong with that. But today we're gonna be talking a lot about that and what that means. But I think you hit it right on the head, Jen. Uh, a building can't become an architect, a painting can't become a painter. You know, we are meant to become what literally what we were born to be, which is God.

SPEAKER_03 5:27

It diminishes our destiny if we just say that we're creations and we're not offspring.

SPEAKER_00 5:33

So so how do you guys think before we move on to like his talk, which is great, how do you guys think believing that we're literal descendants of God, not just creations of God, and that our destiny is to go live with him and be like him literally, how do you think that changes people's um addictions, decisions, those types of things?

SPEAKER_01 5:53

Yeah, it's a eternal perspective that really motivates us and our decisions that we make. Um why is it that members of the church who are married in the temple have a higher, I guess you could say, uh success rate in marriage, less divorce. It's because we have that eternal perspective. And not to say that it's always perfect and it always works out because it doesn't, but there's a greater chance when we have that eternal perspective, when we know that we're going to be together forever. So when we we look at we're gonna be become gods, I want everything. I want what God can give me. Yeah, why would I say no, He He can only give me 80% of what he has? No, I want I want to be able to get everything, and I'm not perfect, but I'm I'm striving to, and eventually I will get there through the atonement of our Savior Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_03 6:51

Can I add to that with the increased vision of becoming a God or goddess becomes increased motivation, just like what you said. It increases our motivation to be better and do better and try harder.

SPEAKER_00 7:05

Yeah, identity, you know, it's like that idea that I matter. You know, we if we're a creation, we might just be like an object. We could be some, you know, but when we are the literal son or daughter of God, then we understand that we matter more. And if we're meant to become just like him, then we become gods ourselves. I think, I think I get why people from the outside who've never heard this concept struggle with it initially. I totally get that piece of it. But going to your idea of identity and and and choices and addiction, uh Dennis Deaton, who was on the show a while back, he quotes a book that where they they teach how to deal with addiction. So this is a non-religious concept. This is like what they teach people who are struggling with. In this case, it was an eating disorder. And so they label the desires, the voices in their head, anything that pulls them towards their addiction, they actually label that as a name. They give it a name. It's Ted, the eternal destroyer. And so they label it. And so in the book that he wrote called Look Into Me in Every Thought, Doubt Not, Fear Not, he calls them scam because he's always scamming you away from your self-identity. So I it's not that like the identity clarity and the destiny understanding it is like takes away the addiction or makes all your decisions, but it gives us purpose and reason as to why we should keep doing that. And so, and I loved how you started, Wade, with the idea of the adversary right out of the gate, because I don't think we're talking about him enough. I think his influence is something, if we believe in God, we have to believe he's there too. And if God's purpose is to make us like him, Satan's job is to make us suffer and destroy us. And so that's why those voices in our head aren't ours. We're not the voices in our head. And so if we know, like, well, I can't produce darkness. So when I look in the mirror and I think I'm a fat old man, which I've I've thought out loud, like that's not, I don't originate that. Someone whispered that and I lashed on for whatever reason, out of fear or lack of confidence in the Lord, whatever that might be. But the Lord and us, we're the same. So we're all we're we're children of light. We're only able of generating righteousness. It's just that in a fallen state, we are going to be prone to doing these things as we learn and grow.

SPEAKER_01 9:08

Yeah, there's so much power in our thoughts. There was a a sign in my junior high in the the multi-purpose room that said, if you think you can, you might. If you think you can't, you're right. And so if we if we think that we can't become like God, then we tend to give up or not give our best effort. Or the same with anything. I'm not good at math. So I'm just gonna give up and I'm gonna focus on what I'm what I am good at. So when we think we can become like God, we're going to keep on striving and trying and doing and and knowing, yeah, we have to know we we're not there yet, but we will be.

SPEAKER_00 9:48

Yeah, I'm learning so much as we're already talking, the power of I am.

SPEAKER_03 9:52

I love that phrase. Favorite name of Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_00 9:56

The great I am.

SPEAKER_03 9:57

Yes, I am. Why? Because when you say I am a fat old man, what are you saying? Like Jesus calls himself I am. And when you say I am a fat old man, like you have to think about no, Jesus I am.

SPEAKER_00 10:12

If if we are one and we're trying to become one, then I'm I'm almost like not insulting the savior, but kind of because he created me. Huh.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

And to start with the Aranic priest said in the young women's themes, they start with, I am. I am a beloved son of God. I am a beloved daughter of heavenly parents with divine nature and eternal destiny. That's what the church, that's what the church leaders want our youth to know. I am a beloved son, a beloved daughter of God. That's what they start with. That's their the theme. And I don't think the youth really grasp that.

SPEAKER_00 10:48

And what's great is I think any person would hear that and go, that's good. And yet, if we really believe that, what is the only destination that makes sense? What's the only end in mind? What's the only potential, if not infinite, if not to be as God is, as He says, and we're going to read here in a second.

SPEAKER_02 11:08

Right.

The Temple Teaches Divine Destination

SPEAKER_00 11:08

So I do love the idea of starting with that I am, that destination gives motivation, reason. Um, there's a quote that I love that talks about how without purpose or meaning, suffering destroys. With purpose and meaning, suffering refines. So if we if we know this is a path to become like God, every sin maybe isn't uh an indication of my lack of worth, but maybe an indication of an opportunity to repent and learn to become more like our savior. So um, yeah, so let's talk about going back to the talk now. I think we've established clearly the the purpose of why it's important to really believe this concept that we're not just productions of a creator as much as the descendants and literal like connecting uh points to the savior. What where do we go from in the talk? I actually don't know where to go from here.

SPEAKER_01 11:59

There's one thing that I want to bring up is God is all powerful. Yes, we don't doubt that at all. So if we we say that he can't produce people just like him who are all powerful, that limits his power. Yeah. So in order to be perfect, he he can, and being all-powerful, he can use that power to create people just like him who are perfect. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 12:27

And to tying this back to the temple, that is where we learn to be like God, to live a godlike life, keeping the commandments, those covenants that we make and the ordinances we perform in the temple. So that is how we become like him.

SPEAKER_00 12:44

You know, I think I've heard it best stated at one of our in one of our Sunday schools, but like that's that's why they call it an endowment and not a gift, because an endowment is a gift, right?

SPEAKER_02 12:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 12:53

The the endowment of knowledge is so significant that if someone was donating money to a university,$50 would be a gift, a$2 billion or$2 million investment would be an endowment, and they name a building after you. The Lord in the temple is endowing us with knowledge about our divine, why we exist, who we are, our potential, and like you said, Jen, how. And that's where the pattern through the creation story is explained to us that we can learn that pattern of how we become like God. Yeah. Literally. This isn't just like a figurative, beautiful thing. It's literally become just like him. It's a process. It's a process.

SPEAKER_03 13:27

Can I share a personal experience? I would love that. So this is about I am a child of God. And oh, okay, about six years ago. I gotta stop clicking this pen. Sorry. About six years ago, I was doing some family history work with one of my sons on a family search. And uh, we just kept clicking back, and this line just kept going further and further back. And then eventually we came to a queen, and I was so excited. I was like, we have royal blood, and boom, immediately this thought entered my mind, you have you are a daughter of a king, a royal king. You have an eternal destiny, and that is way more important than any earthly queen or king. And that was so powerful. It has stuck with me past six years. It'll always stick with me.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

It's it's interesting how um it took genealogy for you to feel that, right? Though there was, it's a powerful thing just on the genealogical side, that like go back in time and see those and hear those stories or people that lived in those times and go, wow, that was me. And it's not just the the powerful, cool kings and queens. It's like I went back in time and saw um that one of my descendants was like this this constantly in jail. He was in England and it was like during the 1700s, and he was like constantly in jail and he witnessed the murder of like all these famous people from his jail cell. Like, I don't know why they had documentation. There was something about that that just gave a little bit of color and spice to my existence. Yeah, it's not this is maybe a little bit off topic, but I do think there's power in uh looking backwards and where we came from, just as there's much power as looking forward to where we're meant to go.

SPEAKER_03 15:07

I agree.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

I think that gives us a lot of reason to and a lot of motivation to overcome the challenges that we face.

unknown 15:12

Yeah.

The Fall Starts Spiritual Progress

SPEAKER_00 15:13

Yeah. So in this talk, he goes into this concept of I I felt like it wasn't a very it wasn't super bold, but I thought it was a little bit bolder than most talks about this topic. Um, and so as he's going into this place of discussing our our our eternal destiny to become, just as God, um, you know, he talks a lot about destiny here. So let me just read this quote that I loved. What then has God revealed to us about our destiny? He has spoken clearly and frequently and forthrightly on the subject from the very beginning. When Adam and Eve were in the garden, they lived in a state of innocence, meaning they had only a limited knowledge of good and evil. And then skipping down, it says, um, so it is with Adam and Eve. They were not in a state of spiritual neutrality and they could not progress towards their divinity, divine destiny until they were cast out in the garden, thus put into a spiritual gear. This spiritual gear concept is like we were needed to come down here to be put into a spiritual gear so that we could become like God. And that's the first thing that we learn in the temple is that the fall existed. And it's not just something for them, but it's something for us. Um, why do you guys think the fall was so necessary for us to become like our Savior?

SPEAKER_01 16:20

I think it's uh a choice. We have to choose it. Like we can't just be in God's presence and oh yeah, that's easy. I'm I want to be like him, and so I'm gonna follow him. When you're out of his presence and you're surrounded by all the temptations of the world and distractions, you have to make that conscious choice to follow. And so I think that's a big part of why why we're here. Again, it's a learning process. Um, we don't become gods just because we were born, because we're a child of heavenly parents. We have to progress. All the ordinances in the church, it's it's milk before meat. You know, you learn, you're baptized, you receive the Holy Ghost, and then you know, you can be ordained in the priesthood. There's the um temple ordinances, and they all just build on each other. That's this life experience. It just builds and builds to help prepare us for what's coming.

SPEAKER_03 17:16

It's agency, right? Like that's what the whole council in heaven was about. And Satan wanted to destroy our agency, and his plan was mixed. Absolutely. It's agency. So we have our agency to make good choices or bad choices.

SPEAKER_00 17:33

And that's why we had to fall. We had to come here to have that spiritual gear kicked in so that we could make choices using our agency. Um, so in the talk, he goes into lots of different elements as to like ways to show that throughout time we were meant to have the divine potential to become just as God is. And so, um, where do you guys want to start? Do you want to just start with this the scripture stuff like he does in the talk? So, what scripture spoke out to you guys where he talks this idea of like our quest for Godhood, as he puts it? What scripture stood out to you or what thoughts have you had on that section?

SPEAKER_03 18:06

Well, definitely on the Sermon of the Mount, when he says, be therefore perfect, even as your Father, which is in heaven, is perfect. And kind of like what Wade said earlier, are we only supposed to become 90% perfect? Or are we supposed to be all the way perfect? And it's all the way perfect, and we can only get there through the atonement of Jesus Christ, right? Yeah. It's only through Christ that we can become perfect. But there is that goal and there is that command.

Scriptural Proof For Divine Potential

SPEAKER_00 18:32

I I think you get something really like beautifully with that comment, Jen, because like when people hear that become gods, I get it. It comes across a little bit like we think in a weird, selfish way that we are gonna, but it's we're we're actually acknowledging the power of Christ. We we we are unable, like we can't even take a step without his mercy and grace. So when we're talking about when he says it on the mount, be therefore perfect even as I, he's saying you can be just as I am. He's not saying 99%, you'll always be a little bit less than. He's saying the same. In his talk, I wrote down, I think there was nine scriptures, and they're all over the place, right? In the Genesis, it starts with with the first one there where it's like, walk before me and be thou perfect. And then there's one that you mentioned, Jen. Um, is there any other scriptures that you that stood out to you guys?

SPEAKER_01 19:22

Yes, it was I and them and thou and me, that thou may be perfect and one. That was in John 17.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

Yes. To be made one. Yeah, what do you think that means, Wade? To be one with Christ.

SPEAKER_01 19:41

That's an incredible relationship. To be one, to be his friend. Isn't that an honor to be considered his friend?

SPEAKER_02 19:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:50

More than anything. I want to be Christ's friend. I want to be one with him and be near him.

SPEAKER_00 19:56

I never thought of it like that. You know, being one just for me felt like equal. But what is an equal, a friend? I it I love the fact that it always comes back to the relationship with our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ. And the way that he just says that, I've never thought of that verse in that sense where it's like, I am in them and thou in me, and they may be made perfect in one. The idea that we can be one even as they are one and one in purpose. I think it's one in purpose and all those things, but to your point, it's the relationship. Like we're the same. I, you know, you guys have been married for how long now?

SPEAKER_03 20:32

25 years. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

You couldn't have like choreographed that better. So 25 years of marriage. Tell me what has your journey been like as you guys have been married for 25 years in terms of would I'm putting words in your mouth, but I'm assuming that you are becoming more like one. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 20:48

Let's tell the joke.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

Let's tell the joke.

SPEAKER_01 20:51

Tell the joke. So sometimes when I'm introducing ourselves, I say, Yeah, we've been married 25 years, and she makes every day feel like an eternity. And I'm like, and I get a lot of groans and like, whoa. I can't believe that to me, eternity is what we're striving for. And she does make every day like an eternity. I want to be with her because of how she treats me, how she treats our boys, our family, and everybody around us. That's a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 21:20

You mean it is a compliment?

SPEAKER_01 21:21

It is a compliment. She makes every day feel like an eternity, and I want to be with her for eternity.

SPEAKER_00 21:26

Wow. And so yeah, so I have you guys noticed that like over time, because I will tell you that me and Heather, after 27 years, two more, two years more, um, we our love languages have shifted over the years. Like this thing of becoming one isn't like a metaphor. I think it's in some ways literal, because she, I was always physical touch and words of affirmation, which is most men. And then she's acts of service and um time, quality time. And so over the years, I have more appreciation for those other languages. I really believe that she's taught me love. Like she's taught me how to love in the way that she was gifted at. And I've noticed she's become more, more verbal and more, you know, like huggy. And like for me, as we've so it's not, I don't want to give a picture of perfection. I always worry about like talking very highly in those relationships, but I also just have to acknowledge the fact that after 27 years of choosing each other time and time again, despite adversity and challenge, you start to you start to evolve into one type of person. I don't mean you lose your identity, and I don't mean you lose any of that beautiful. And it's it's more of like you adopt the other person's talents in some ways, or or even just like the love language thing is probably the best example for that. So I wonder how much of that's like that with Christ as well.

SPEAKER_03 22:43

Yeah. You know how they're going to respond. You know what makes them happy, you know, make what makes them sad. And so you know what to do and what not to do to build the relationship.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

Yeah, absolutely. Um, have you guys ever been a part of a really powerful team as well? You ever had that experience, like a sports team or a work team, everyone that you've ever worked with before that you just really connect with? Because in my experience, I've had that. And you know, um, when I've had it, I've had experiences at work where like my team is one, where we're individual, but there we're one in heart and purpose. There's something really magical about that experience. And there's an evolution again that occurs when we do that. Have you guys ever had that type of experience before?

SPEAKER_03 23:22

Not necessarily, but I I know what synergy feels like. So maybe a work group or school group, sorry, a school group, or even a friend group where you feel like you can accomplish so much more. Okay, I have an example.

SPEAKER_00 23:33

I knew you would. I just needed you knew you needed some time. You got it.

SPEAKER_03 23:38

Uh when we lived in Maricopa and we were first married, we were I was part of a service group with ladies in the church, and it was synergy. You know, we accomplished so much more together than we could have on our own. So it's powerful. I love that feeling of one.

SPEAKER_01 23:52

It reminds me of like cross-country in high school. We had a great team. And my going into my senior year, that were there were several of us that were seniors, and we really pushed each other like all summer long. We call on each other, let's go run, let's go run. So we were prepared, we were ready, we were in shape when the season started. And what an impact that made to the team and our overall performance that we just gelled and we we strived and we we really helped each other to to improve.

SPEAKER_00 24:22

Yeah, it goes back to that a shared vision. I think we were talking about becoming gods. We're talking just the shared vision of where we all want to be together because it takes a village. We can't get there without the savior, and we can't get there without each other or our ancestors. And so there's nothing less selfish about that end in mind. It's if anything, it parallels everything that we're talking about in such a powerful way. Um, yeah. No, I'm oh, sorry.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

I don't want to derail the topic.

SPEAKER_00 24:50

No, this is great.

SPEAKER_03 24:51

I have one more scripture that I really want to share if we're still talking about the scriptures.

SPEAKER_00 24:54

We are.

SPEAKER_03 24:55

Um okay, this is what Paul taught. And it's a critical purpose of the church for perfecting the saints. He said, uh, for the perfecting the saints till we all come unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ. And he's and then Brother Collister says, note the measuring rod, not man, not some form of mini-Christ or quasi-god, but rather that we should become a perfect man. And then he gives us the standard of what we should strive for, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ. And then he asks, Does that sound relative to you? And maybe the critic would be like, certainly those scriptures mean something else, but the scriptures are very bold. The prophets are very bold in saying, be therefore perfect. And he's quoting Christ, like, be Christ is the one that said that, be therefore perfect. And and so it's no, like we there are people who were stoned to death for their good works for for quoting they were saying this is blasphemous to say that we could be like God. But Christ clearly said, even as I am.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

Yes. It's so, and I think another this is a little bit tangential, but the idea of perfection, we know we're not going to achieve it in this life. But I think there it's it's less of like an expectation and more of a pattern of like and the end in mind. So when he was talking about being ye there for perfect, even as I'm perfect, what he's saying is your potential is this. Never doubt that because of the influence it has on our self-belief and our dis in our decisions, but it also is reflective of, again, through Christ, that ability to do that. So I love how you you explain that that piece of it.

SPEAKER_03 26:35

Okay, I need to say one more thing about being perfect. So let's do that. There's a little, let's see, a thought here where he said, somebody might say a baby is perfect. I always say this baby is perfect, right? And in the sense that he's never, he or she has never made any mistakes, right? They're perfect, but not perfect in the sense that they have all of the qualities and all of the spiritual gifts needed to become like Christ or uh God. So I loved that thought.

SPEAKER_00 27:01

I do love that thought. You know what's interesting when you're a new parent, especially for the first one. Yeah. When other people like your my mom picked up my son Ethan and just went, Oh, he's perfect. There was something just so comforting in that way because that was a creation of of mine in my wife's. And it's like to see that, and I didn't, I knew it felt what the without words, that was what it felt like. Yeah, is that there's infinite potential in this one. And God thinks about that with us every day, right? He doesn't sit back and look at our sins and and judge and get angry. He's like, No, keep kicking up. You can do it. You're you this is how you become perfect. The path, it's weird to me that the path of perfection looks like lots of imperfection and super big, like sinning and like trying to get back on the path, so to speak. Yeah, it's powerful. That's a good quote. Yeah, I love that idea.

SPEAKER_01 27:48

Yeah, yeah, I think it's uh interesting. You're talking about having a a child. How how do you will will an imperfect person create a perfect being, a perfect little baby? Or or any of us, right? That's so true. Well, then God, he's perfect and he's creating imperfect people. Well, no, we're he's creating perfect people in in in process.

SPEAKER_00 28:16

Yeah, there we go. So it's like we're we're we're perfection in process.

SPEAKER_01 28:20

Yes, perfection pending. Perfection pending. And I just want to kind of bring this back to the the temple. This is a temple-bound podcast. We're talking a lot about um perfection, but we're taught these things in the temple. And we're we're taught that we're we're anointed to become kings and queens. And we're not there yet, but we're we're preparing for it, and it's taught that we can become that way, and that there's there's so much that God has to offer us. We're going to be heirs and inherit everything that He has. So in and not just heirs, but joint heirs, joint heirs of Christ. Key distinction, yeah, not subordinate heirs. So after 25 years, Jen and I just did our our trust and our will and finally put that together, and so we had to name our heirs, and you know, we made it equal. We didn't say like Kevin is a higher heir than Christian. Sure. You know, we made them equal. So there's no subordinate heirs in in God's eyes. We're all joint heirs and we're gonna inherit everything that he has. Now, is it gonna be equal? Is your mansion gonna look exactly like my mansion? Probably not, but but it'll be perfect for us. Exactly. And it'll be it will be equal in our eyes.

SPEAKER_00 29:43

Yeah, it's it's funny. I I've I heard this from someone else and I've adopted it when people, you know, I don't know when it comes up, but when I talk about my wife, I always say that she's perfect. And I I actually don't like putting that kind of pressure on my spouse because we tend to do that in the church a little bit, where it's like, oh, I'm just a big loser. My wife's amazing. But the truth is she's perfect for me. Yeah. Like she's perfect for me. And so, like, that's that when we say perfect, we're looking at that type of connect, that connection there. So, wait, something that you said really might remind me of this great quote. It says, one might ask, who can give the greater honor and glory to God? A creature of lower or more exalted status. Can an animal offer the same honor or worship with the same passion and intensity as a human? And can a mere mortal express the, what's the word again, Jen? Imperial feelings or exercise the spiritual fervency of a potential God. One's capacity to honor and worship is magnified with one's intellectual, emotional, cultural, and spiritual enlightenment. So accordingly, the more we become like God, the greater our ability to pay him homage. In that process of lifting men heavenward, God simultaneously multiplies his own honor and glory and thus is glorified more, not less. I love this because people are like, oh, you're you're it's blasphemous because they say we're becoming equals to God. That's not what he's saying.

SPEAKER_01 30:58

No.

SPEAKER_00 30:58

What is he saying?

SPEAKER_01 31:00

It it gives him more glory, more power, and and we're equal to him. Like he he wants us to be there with him, just like we want our own children to be equal to us. And better, or better, yes, right? We don't want them to be less than us. Nobody wants their kid to be less than them, right? Yeah, or I've never met anybody that well, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:24

I I I think it kind of goes back. I think this is a core core concept that gets misconstrued. I think when we think of God as like a fully baked cake, right? And to us, he is, but I I think what we're also recognizing is that progress is infinite.

SPEAKER_02 31:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 31:42

Even for even for God. And his progression is our progression. So as we progress, we will never achieve his status in a sense, but we are able to achieve a God status. Because at that, and I don't this is where my brain breaks, literally, is because then I don't know what happens to him at that point. But what we do know is that there, if he is, he's still if we have infinite potential, what does that mean he has? Infinite potential. And so that's why we're saying we're not meant to replace or be equals to this perfect being, we will never achieve where he's at in a way in a really balanced way, because as we progress to that status, he will progress to a different status and we will we will always be subservient to him in that way, and less we're lesser than in the sense that we are we don't have the same glory and the same goodness because we just haven't achieved that yet, you know? Yeah. So um, so we those are the scriptures. Any other scriptures you wanted to read from that? Are we ready to move on to the um other like early Christians and those guys?

SPEAKER_03 32:43

I think we're good to move on.

SPEAKER_00 32:44

Well, there it what were the early Christian writers? Were there any of those quotes that stood out to you guys regarding this concept of of man's potential to become God?

SPEAKER_03 32:52

Well, I just think it's really interesting that all of these early Christian writers had the same thought that we could become gods, just like as in the restored church, yes, we have that. And they uh after the apostasy and these early Christians passed on, then that truth was lost. And so I just think that's really interesting because I didn't know that before I read this talk, that there were other writings about becoming a God. Like I didn't realize that.

SPEAKER_00 33:23

Yeah, it was weird in the talk because um, as as he points out, he's like, here we're gonna hit five different ways that people we're gonna show you how being like being God, becoming God, is something that's not like a new concept. It's been around since the Old Testament and even after the death of Christ. And it's interesting, I didn't catch this until you just said that, Jen. But everyone he quotes, and we encourage everyone who's listening to go read this talk, he quotes probably a dozen early Christian writers, and he marks when they lived, and they were all before 400 AD. Like we're talking from 115 AD to 400 AD. So this is all within like generations after Christ was was crucified. That not only is this like a not a new concept, but it was there after it was there during Christ's time. And then afterwards, it was a it was very expressed. You know, we have, let's just pick a random one here. Um, Cyprian, a well-known Christian leader in the third century, ref reaffirmed that men can become like Christ. What Christ is, we Christians shall be if we imitate him. Another one, Oregon. I'm getting these names horribly wrong. The true God, referring to the Father, then is the God, and those who are formed after him are God's images, as it were, of him in the prototype. And that was like 200 AD. So it's it's just powerful that these Christians, it was it was like back then you would have said that and they would have been like, Well, yeah, that's and it makes it wonder what what happened to that truth.

SPEAKER_01 34:55

We know the great apostasy happened and and this was kind of went to the side, but it's so powerful.

SPEAKER_00 35:02

Yeah, it is, and it's interesting. Have you guys ever heard that quote that like in the Western world, if someone woke up and said, I'm God, people would assume he's crazy, he or she is crazy. But in the Eastern cultures, someone says I'm God, and someone goes, Oh, you finally see. Oh, the idea, the idea that like this is this is a concept that has been um anyway taught, and especially in the Christian world, early on, it was adopted and used over and over again.

SPEAKER_03 35:27

So the third witness that we're gonna talk about are inspired poets and authors, and C.S. Lewis, I mean, I love that man. He wrote so many inspired things, but he said, it is a serious thing to live in a society of possible gods and goddesses, to remember that the dullest and most uninteresting person you talk to may one day be a creature of which you would be strongly tempted to worship. There are no ordinary people. Oh man.

SPEAKER_00 35:54

I'm clapping. I can't that is so articulate and beautiful. He was truly inspired. Because he's saying what we're trying to say in a way that, like, if you were to read that, you just feel inspired and important. And in no way would you be demeaning the existing of an existing God. If anything, you would be worshiping him by acknowledging our potential and just that beautiful acknowledgement that no one is uninteresting, that every creature which we would be strongly tempted to worship, there are no ordinary people.

SPEAKER_01 36:25

Only potential gods and goddesses. Isn't that how God views us?

SPEAKER_00 36:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:31

As what we can become, not who we currently are.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

Um, did you guys experience that with your kids? Like when you were raising them and they were doing things that I don't know about you guys. I have I'm really curious to see what you say about this. But like when they were teenagers, did you keep in mind their end in mind? Like, I don't I I I don't know if I was really clear like the way God is with us with our potential, but I I'm curious to see what your experience was raising raising your boys in that regard.

SPEAKER_01 36:58

Um certainly you you question their choices at that vacation. And it's like, is that gonna get you where you really should be in life? Um not not like terrible choices, but you just even like career choices or school choices, and like well, you better have a backup plan because I don't know about that one. But yeah, um, but but you also try to support them, right? And love them and encourage them to do their best and in their interests.

SPEAKER_00 37:32

There's there's probably nothing that teaches us more about being a God than having kids. Yeah, you know, because it's it is interesting. I I know God is perfect, so I think it must be one of the things that He does so well is that He must see our constant potential around us. But I I think it's easy to lose sight for me as a parent of their infinite potential when they're uh maybe being rebellious or like you said, some of the silly things I'll do. And and and it's not I don't mean it to be judgmental. I don't look at as less than, but I don't think in those moments I fully appreciate like the way that I I could. And maybe that's part for my learning is like this type of like if I'm meant to be a God, they're meant to be a God. And boy, in real time, as I say that, does that shift how I think about my boys and like all the decisions they're making? Even the ones I don't agree with, right? I think that could serve us as a parent, is is that like that realization for us is important for our decisions, but it's incredibly important for us as even more so to look at our our offspring with that same caring love and potential, because maybe my tone would shift if I'm frustrated.

SPEAKER_03 38:34

It's definitely easy to see their potential when they're making good choices and being obedient and doing the things you're asking them to do, right? But I think as a mother, I just remember holding Kevin when he was a newborn and looking in his eyes, and I just saw my own reflection in his eyes. It was a super powerful moment for me in my life. Didn't happen with any of my other kids, and not to say that it mattered, but just that he he was so innocent and I was there. It's just the responsibility of teaching him the things I know to be true, teaching the things that he needs to know to return to Heavenly Father. It's powerful. And if we can if we can remember this to treat our kids that they're potential gods, we because we don't have goddesses in our household. Only Heather and I. Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_00 39:28

We have two goddesses. Your family has Jen, I have Heather, and we have four boys, and you guys have four boys.

SPEAKER_03 39:34

So, but anyway, if we can remember that as we're raising them, right? That they are potential gods, like how how much better would our parenting be?

SPEAKER_00 39:43

Yeah, this is my favorite part of the entire episode, hands down. And and the reason I say that is because I almost want like this, like whatever minutes that we spend on this to be its own course, because I've never thought about it that way. Where I've always thought about like us becoming as God. I only thought of it selfishly as me. I've never really looked at it as like my kids too. And if they are going to be gods one day, how do I want to treat them? I'm not gonna worship them, but I will say that there is a uh an honor and a certain respect that I'm sure I've I've demonstrated most of their relationships. I think because that's organic to a degree, but that's just in those difficult times, how nice is it to remember that?

unknown 40:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:28

I like you said, it's easy when they're making good choices. And I've had one of my kids who just organically does great things um and then every so often makes mistakes. And I'm reminded, oh no, that's his path too. Like he's this is part of how he becomes more like Christ, but like, yes, and God, right? Like that's powerful. What an honor to have kids. It reminds me of President Oak's most recent talk in general conference, where at the end he talked about how, like, hey, we're all like the world is not having as many kids anymore.

SPEAKER_03 40:57

Right. Right.

SPEAKER_00 40:58

Yeah. I mean, I don't know what you guys think about that in correlation to what we're saying, but I'm I'm getting a different level of like, oh, we've got more spirits that need to evolve and become as Jesus is. And it's our job to bring us, bring them here. And so, yeah, it's kind of interesting. I I wonder if I mean it's the adversary has to be actively working against that. How do you think he is, by the way? How is the adversary influencing us to have fewer kids?

SPEAKER_01 41:23

Well, just the pressures of life. Like here, there's major inflation going on, and you wonder, can I afford another kid?

SPEAKER_00 41:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:31

And and raise them and provide for them as as a father, as a provider. That's hard, right? Amen. And and I want to give the best to my kids. And if I have less kids, then I can give them more. But not really. What what's what's most important, right? It's our teachings, it's how we raise them rather than those material things.

SPEAKER_00 41:53

Yeah. I was raised in a home where my my dad was able to provide, but he struggled in in a in a business sense. He did lots of different things trying to find something that he could really provide in. And I never cared because he was just so loving.

unknown 42:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:08

You know what I mean? Yeah. Like I think we put so much Satan wants us to put attention on those material things and and make us forget that like their existence is what matters more than anything else.

SPEAKER_03 42:18

Fear, right? Satan puts fear in our hearts. We look around and see all the bad choices that people are making. Yeah. And you think, how can I bring an innocent child into this world? And and how how do they have a chance, a survival? And so they put that fear into your heart, Satan puts that fear into your heart that you're not going to do a good job raising kids. I think that that could be part of it.

SPEAKER_00 42:40

Yeah. And it's weird because although it's fear, which is by the way, from the adversary, the lie is based on a lot of truth, which is like compassion and like not wanting to. If, and here's the big if going back to this concept as to why we want to believe that we're meant to become gods, is that if I believe this child that's coming into this world is literally the DNA offspring of Hellmy Father and Hellmy Mother, they're going to be okay. Right? Like, if anything, that's the greater, the harder the world gets, the more we have to believe in that identity if we're going to raise families in this. And that's giving me a lot of peace as we're talking in real time about my grandkids, which I don't have any, but like one day I might. And we're hoping. We're all keeping our fingers crossed. So, like when those kids come, I'll I just want to, I think as a grandparent, I'm because of this discussion, I'm gonna look at them differently and go, no, that's a that's a treasured future god or goddess. I am I am here to like they were born for these challenges, they're gonna be okay. It's gonna be hard, but they were built for it. And my job is just to to treat them as to start talking to them and treating them as they really are so they believe it. Yeah. Yeah. Powerful. Yeah, this is blowing my mind, guys. This is great. So let's go from now. We talked about the first thing we talked about in terms of you said witnesses. The first witnesses, the scriptures, the second was the Early Christians, the third was the poets and the authors. So Jen, what was the next one that the witness?

SPEAKER_03 44:04

Okay, the fourth witness is the power of logic. So, do not the laws of science teach us that like begets like after its kind? Science has taught us that a complex genetic code transferred from parent to child is responsible for the child attaining the physical attributes of his parents. So, thus that makes us God in embryo. God's an embryo, right? Yeah. We are his offspring.

SPEAKER_01 44:31

Yeah, I like what um President Packer says here here. He quotes him and telling a story about a dad and a little, little, I don't know if it's a little daughter, and they the daughter has a little baby chicken in her hands, and the dad says, Won't that be a beautiful dog someday when it grows up? Or maybe it'll be a cow. And then the daughter just four-year-old looks at him and it's like, what are you talking about? This is gonna be a chicken. How does a four-year-old, a little four-year-old know that a chick is a chicken and will grow up to be a chicken? It's just nature, right?

SPEAKER_00 45:09

It's logical.

SPEAKER_01 45:10

Logical. And so it's logical that we, as sons and daughters of God, will grow up to be like him.

SPEAKER_00 45:17

Yeah, as President Snow says about just above that, he goes, We were born in the image of God our Father. He begat us like unto himself. This there is the nature of deity in the composition of our spiritual organization. I want to say that again for the audience. There is the nature of deity in the composition of our spiritual organization. In our spiritual birth, our father transmitted to us capabilities, powers, and faculties which he possessed as much as the child on its mother's bosom possesses, although in an underdeveloped state, these faculties, powers, and susceptibilities of its parents. So yeah, just this idea that like we use DNA as the like the term, but like I loved how President Packer was able to take this concept that can be so like big for people and just bring it down to the bare logic of a child. And I think that was so wise that the child will have that concept of, like, yeah, like be like begets like. So later when they learn about this, it just feels fluid to them. Um, anything else in the logic that stood out to you guys?

SPEAKER_03 46:19

So the part where it's talking about the gospel of Philip, an apocryphal book, oh yes, makes a statement of logic. So he says, uh, a horse sires a horse, a man begets man, a god brings forth a god. So the difference between man and god is significant, but it's only one of degree, not of kind. It's the difference between an acorn and an oak tree, a rosebud and a rose, a son and a father. In truth, every man is a potential god and embryo in fulfillment of that eternal law. Like begets like. I love that. An acorn and an oak tree.

SPEAKER_00 46:52

Yeah, degree, not kind. Yes. Yeah, I just love that. That's so cool. I love that.

SPEAKER_03 47:01

So that's a powerful thought.

SPEAKER_00 47:03

So those are the five, those are the witnesses that that this wonderful.

SPEAKER_03 47:06

I don't know if you wanted.

SPEAKER_00 47:07

All right, so the last testimony we're gonna talk about is the voice of history. So uh, Wade, what did you see in the talk about that?

SPEAKER_01 47:15

It says, if within the short space of mortal life there are men who rise up out of infancy and become masters of the elements of fire and water and earth and air, so that they well nigh rule them as gods. What might what may it not be possible for them to do in a few hundred or thousands or millions of years? So it's saying, you know, throughout history, people have learned and created and harnessed the powers of the earth. And if we have millions of years to become perfect, we can get there.

Ordinances Covenants And Sealing Power

SPEAKER_00 47:50

It's a yeah, when you look back in time, you know, if you could take a person from Jesus' day and have them show up here and have them see these humanoid robots or flying airplanes or uh have a full conversation and schedule a doctor's appointment turning out to be an AI bot, like these things are just, you know, and I I love the fact that, you know, science to me has been one of the greatest reinforcers of my testimony. The more we progress in the latter days, you know, the discovery of the electromagnetic spectrum, the fact that there's this whole thing of energy that has matter that you can't see that influences in various waveforms and likes, it's like, how could that not prove that we have spirits as part of our bodies? And if matter can't be created nor destroyed, so we we turn to science in our faith as a proof of of how these things all fit together, not as a not as a like, well, we don't understand that yet. If some things don't all connect, but all most of the things that are starting to connect are really extra logical and making it easier for us to see God's will. All right. So at the end of this talk, I loved how he talks about a couple of things um that we should be mindful of here that would be really useful for us along this path. He talks about, is it how gen, how we become gods? Or what was it when in the end of his talk where he's discussing these things about um ordinances and the Holy Ghost?

SPEAKER_03 49:16

Yeah, he says, How is it possible that you and I, with all of our weaknesses and shortcomings, could ever become a God? And it's our loving Heavenly Father has given us resources, right? These resources will lift us up to divine heights. And uh there's two that he mainly talks about. And the first one is the saving ordinances, and those would be like baptism, receiving the Holy Ghost, receiving the priesthood, um, going to the temple, and the fifth would be the sealing ordinance.

SPEAKER_00 49:49

Yeah, because he quotes so this this was really interesting to me when he talks about how we're going to become gods, how the two things are the ordinances and then the Holy Ghost. And the ordinances he quotes DNC 84, 20 through 21. This is shown up on the temple bound over and over and over again. Therefore, in the ordinances thereof, the power of godliness is manifest. And without the ordinances thereof and the authority of the priesthood, the power of godliness is not manifest unto the children of men. So he gives those four, five examples of ordinances and the corresponding powers. I thought what was cool about this was the powers associated with the ordinances. I'd never seen them as directly.

SPEAKER_03 50:28

Can I say something about that? Please. So, you know, we don't have ordinances. Like our ordinances are there, and we always make a covenant when we're performing an ordinance, right? They go together, yeah. They go together. So if I could just reread that, therefore, in the ordinances and covenants thereof, the power of godliness is manifest. And without the ordinances and covenants thereof and the authority of the priesthood, the power of godliness is not manifest unto men in the flesh. I just think it's really powerful to add the covenants in there.

SPEAKER_00 50:57

Yes. And so we look at those ordinances and then the associated powers. Baptism wasn't a straightforward one. The the ordinance is the baptism. The power is the atonement of Jesus Christ, cleanses us from our sins and helps us make us holy. Um, did any of those stand out to you guys, those other ones?

SPEAKER_03 51:14

Well, obviously the endowment stood out to me. It's just it's a gift of knowledge from God about how we can become more like him. And that is accompanied with the covenants and it inspires us, right? As as we there's an old saying saying, Knowledge is power, and accordingly, the righteousness of this knowledge received in the endowment, um, is more, it just brings more godly power into our own lives. And um, the doctrine covenants in 90 DNC 95 say, I do I design to endow those whom I have chosen with power from on high. So just the I just feel like the whole endowment presentation, when you you go and you learn about like from the very beginning of the creation to your potential to be like Heavenly Father, what we're talking about right now, right? Like that is that's the meat. You say we need to talk about the milk. You start learning milk, and this this is the meat.

SPEAKER_00 52:12

And then think using that same analogy, the milk is primary. I am a child of God singing that song. The meat is in the temple, understanding the actual process by which we develop. And that pattern is demonstrated through the creation as we are created to be gods. So that's why my son asked me once, why is it that we study in the endowment? The why is it the the creation is the foundation? I'm like, well, because there was nothing more universally applicable that affected all of us, and it's the closest metaphor to the pattern that we must follow to be created to become gods. That is the process, everything we see, all the covenants and all the ordinances therein. What about you, Wade? Was there one of those that stood out to you?

SPEAKER_01 52:56

Oh, I always loved the ceiling. We did ceilings earlier um this week a couple days ago. Um just the powerful blessings that were promised. Like all the blessings of Abraham just offspring, as many as the sands of the sea and of the stars of the sky is just unfathomable. It's so mind-blowing. Like I can't comprehend it, but I want to know what that's gonna be like.

SPEAKER_00 53:31

Yeah, yeah, it's it's the end, all it's kind of it's kind of the ultimate end in mind because it's it's one thing to become a god, but what is it to be a god and be alone? You can't. It's a family, yeah, yeah. And so that that that eternal family and that connection that goes on and perpetuates with infinite potential. Yeah, could there be anything more exciting or joyous to think about than being with your spouse and your kids in a state without resistance or evil and just growing and loving and being together?

SPEAKER_01 53:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:58

Having known, of course, the bad, the sorrow. We wouldn't ex we wouldn't appreciate those times unless we had to suffer through what we do now. But yeah, I think that's the end in mind that ultimately it all comes together in in such a beautiful way, Wade. I love that. Um, I love this quote here about that. The saving ordinances are much more than a checklist of actions. We must satisfy to gain entrance to the celestial kingdom. They are the keys that open the doors to heavenly powers that can lift us up above our mortal limitations. And I would like to put in parentheses today. The second resource to assist us in our pursuit of Godhood is the gifts of the spirit. What are those spirit gifts? I ask you guys before we read, or you can read this if you want, but what are the what are those spirit gifts? There's so many.

SPEAKER_03 54:40

Right. I well, I loved Pres or Elder Ukdorf's most recent conference talk, right? Yeah. When he talks about the gifts of the spirit and the ones like, oh, somebody's a good listener or a good, uh, I guess, teacher. I can't think of the things. Let's see, I should have wrote it before I came here. Um, you're a good listener, you're compassionate, you have the ability to be friendly or to gather people. I mean, I don't know if these are things he said, but but these are just unique gifts, right? That maybe it's not the athleticism or the musical ability, or it's it's ones that maybe are a little bit more unobserved. People don't see them.

SPEAKER_00 55:19

And definitely not as appreciated. You know, it's one of those things that, like, if you think about a parent that you would appreciate in a parent, that's an easy way to distinguish in those spiritual gifts, right? But I love that idea of like these spiritual gifts are also ways that we become like God. And um, yeah, uh Wade, from your perspective, was there any any spiritual gifts that came to mind when you were reading this that stood out to you? Anything that you thought, wow, those are like those are good spiritual gifts or things that you might connect with.

SPEAKER_01 55:48

Not necessarily a specific spiritual gift, but how do we use them? Okay, talk to me about that. We we you we were given these gifts to bless others, to to use them to help to perfect others and build them up and help them. You know, they're not given for our own benefit. Um, and and they are because we do we do learn from them and we are blessed when we use them. But it's just so wonderful to see that all of our gifts are different. We complement each other, yeah, and we're put in places, certain times, certain places to help certain people. And we go through experiences so that we can build others later. And sharing sharing those gifts is just a very beautiful thing that we can we can do. And as we share it, we'll we'll further develop it and it becomes an even a greater gift.

SPEAKER_00 56:44

Thank you so much for describing that. I I really think you took that question where where we needed to go, because it's it's one thing to know what those gifts are and recognize their spiritual gifts, but it's the other one to understand how they actually serve us to become like God. And that is in the application of serving others. As he says, the first in the kingdom shall be last. You know, to to exalt ourselves, we must descend like Jesus did and follow his example to serve. The world is all about like hierarchy and like, you know, the leader leads and everyone follows, but not in the church, not in the gospel of Jesus Christ. The leader is the one who who is subservient of in a sense of helping other people.

SPEAKER_01 57:19

I really have the thought earlier how there's a lot of wars going on right now.

SPEAKER_00 57:25

Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_01 57:26

And people are trying to get more power by killing others, by stepping on them, by using them, whatever it takes to elevate themselves. But that's the exact opposite of what our savior did. He gave up his life to gain power. And and he didn't gain not that earthly power, but the power of having more followers, having more people to wanting to be like him. He gave up everything and did everything for love. Not he his power isn't by stepping on people, it's by building people up. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 58:01

You know, um, this concept to me, I didn't really fully understand until we started talking about it. This last part about this idea of spiritual gifts really landed in a way for me that I needed to hear, which is this idea that we are expected to get more spiritual gifts. Like the Lord wants, He's over on the other side going, Come on, Will, you could do more. Like the thing that you're struggling with, the thing that you're not good at, just ask me for it. It's if it's a spiritual gift and it's meant to bless others, right? And so that was kind of a unique concept for me. I I that to me, I thought ended the talk beautifully and really hit that home in such a powerful way. Um, what did you guys think of that piece? Of like, are these spiritual gifts are things that we can actually go get? We can actually we can get them from God.

SPEAKER_03 58:48

Oh, yeah. And even the scriptures say that, right? They say seek after these gifts, like try to attain as many as you can. And all of these gifts are, they represent a an attribute of godliness. And so if we're trying to become like God, we want to develop these gifts and in with the purpose in mind of serving others, right?

SPEAKER_00 59:08

Yes. And I think it's so that's that's the difference, I guess, is that like if I wanted um a spiritual gift to connect with others so that I could sell more of my product.

SPEAKER_02 59:20

Right.

SPEAKER_00 59:21

You know, you know, and and just gain financially. You know, I could earn that spiritual gift to some degree because I can practice the skill set and all these different things. But if I'm struggling with, let's say I'm very introverted and I'm not naturally able to connect with people, but I really want to do a good job in my new calling, which I'm terrified of, I can go to the Lord and get that gift. Like it's it's not the same process. We can be endowed, meaning gifted, those capabilities. There's a quote here that I just thought was phenomenal. If any of us are imperfect, it is our duty to pray for the gift that will make us perfect, full stop. So, like whatever we're struggling with, whatever quality or spiritual, so it doesn't just have to be for serving others, but like if we just feel like, man, I am impatient, which I guess would serve others if I was more patient. If this this isn't this isn't uh a metaphor, this is me being transparent. If I if I can pray and expect that that patience to come, you know, how powerful. So if any of us are imperfect, it is our duty to pray for the gift that will make us perfect. No man ought to say, Oh, I can't help this. It's not my nature. He is not justified in it for the reason that God has promised to give us strength is to correct these things and to give gifts that will eradicate them. He wants his saints to be perfected in the truth. For this purpose, he gives these gifts and bestows upon those who seek after them in order that they may be perfect people upon the face of the earth, notwithstanding their many weaknesses, because God has promised to give the gifts that are necessary for their perfection. What how does that make you guys feel that whatever you're lacking, you can pray to Helling Father and get as a result as a result of just believing He'll give it to you if it's a spiritual gift.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:57

It's absolutely amazing. But you have to be careful what you pray for, what you ask for.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:02

I like this warning. Why what is that, Wade?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:05

Because a couple of years ago, I felt like I needed more in my life. And I prayed for God to give that to me. And what did He give me? Unemployment. You wanted more connection, I wanted to be a connection, I wanted more spirituality, and I found myself unemployed. But through that process, I understood what people talk about when they talk about anxiety and depression and panic attacks, and I have a greater empathy for them, and God gave me that gift, and it was hard to earn it. Yeah, but I'm so grateful now having gone through that, that I have that understanding, and I'm sure at some point I'll I'll use that to help somebody else. So be careful when when you are, I'm not saying you shouldn't pray for it and seek these gifts. Yeah, you're gonna say God's gonna you should, but I you have to understand that it's a process and it's part of life, it's part of growth. Yeah, and learning is going through those hard times and learning to rely on God and have faith. And then then looking back in the end, you're just like, okay, that was hard, but I'm so glad that I went through it.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:33

Yeah, and you have this, and now you're eternally changed from it. My my I love that story, Wade, because my um struggle, I used to have a temper. I used to have a really not like fiery temper, but it was one of those where it's like it took a lot to irritate me or to be once I got mad though, I was really mad. And I I I I suffered through that. I prayed for patience. I learned, I really prayed for that like ability. And um, like we say, you know, when we pray for patience, did the Lord give you patience or does he give you opportunities to learn patience? And he gives you opportunities to learn patience. And I would go through it again in a second because my younger two kids don't ever have a clue that I've I've I you know what I mean. I'm not again, I'm not painting up, I've got other weaknesses I'm working on, but like my older two will talk about that. I remember Alex, who's on a mission right now, is like, hey, what happened to your temper? He said that once, and I was so flattered.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:26

He recognized it. It's amazing.

Spiritual Gifts Asked For Then Earned

SPEAKER_00 1:03:28

It was, it was, it's, it truly was a miracle, guys. Like it was one of those where it's like, I wasn't around beating anyone up or anything, but it was it was one of those things where it's like, stop it, stop it. If you don't stop it, like it was just like this escalating thing. And now, like, I'm like, all right, stop it, stop. Hey man, you're driving me crazy. I'm gonna leave or I'm gonna kick you out for a little bit because I can't handle it. Like, I don't, I don't lose my cool, at least in the same way. And I just, yeah, it's it's true though. You gotta it, you, you really we do have to know the darkness to know the light. And so we can't sit back and expect that like these spiritual gifts come to us. Um, I don't think they all come to us in the I think sometimes you can just be gifted. Yeah. I think that's absolutely an endowment, but I think we have to look at these challenges that we're faced as gifts too. I think it's a yes and I think we we're given those things, but I also think those challenges, so if we're trying to become more like Christ, we know what we're signing up for in some degree a lot more challenge too.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:21

Yeah, those gifts just we don't just pray for it in there, like the the analogy of, oh, I'm gonna punch a number into the vending machine and out comes my chips. Yeah, right. Like, Heavenly Father, give me patience and then He just gives us patience. Yeah. We we have to go through that process of earning it and and learning through it.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:40

Absolutely. I love it. Well, guys, this has been phenomenal. As we look at these uh last quotes here, is there anything you wanted to highlight before we wrap up?

Temple Clothing And Seeing Your Future

SPEAKER_01 1:04:50

I just had a a thought. I don't know if you remember like when you were a kid going to Burger King. Yeah. And they would have these little paper crowns that they would give to the kids, and you wear it and you just think you're all that. Yeah, you think you're a king and you're special. And Heavenly Father gives us that same opportunity when we go to the temple. We put on the temple clothes and we are we have that um dressing up, that experience being like a god, that experience of having a little little idea of what it's gonna be like. And so when we put on those temple clothes, we can remember that we are becoming like God.

Rapid Fire Favorites And Family Travel

SPEAKER_00 1:05:38

Yeah, I I I feel inspired to share a physical therapy research project uh with you guys that correlates with what you just said, Wade. Um they did a study to show what how much your eyesight really influences um physiological change in muscle, muscle development. So they have these, these it was a there's three groups. One group, these guys were doing bicep curls. It was No mirror. And so they're just doing bicep curls. The second group was doing bicep curls in a mirror, and they were told to look at their right arm. So the whole time they're looking, they were looking at their right arm. They're doing the same curls, they're going to failure, all the things. This the third group was to look at their left arm. The groups, the two groups that had their vision fixed on one of the muscles grew by 30% more. Like it wasn't even like the study was like, wait, what did we just discover? Something that we've always known. So going to your point, when we talk about going to the temple and we talk about why do we wear those ritualistic robes, it's to it's to give us the visualization of the true end in mind. And so when we're standing there in the in the robes of the holy priesthood with our spouse in those mirrors that go on for the infinite, and we see that, our minds start to create. That's what's how powerful we are as literal descendants of God, right? Our minds and visualize it. And so it immediately starts creating it subconsciously. And that's why when we stand in these places, people go, why? It's like because we have to be reminded. And why do we are we still told to go often to the temple as often as our per our circumstances permit? It's so that we can remember what matters and what doesn't. And we can remember who we are and what we're not, and what we can become and what we were born to be, and nothing else. So thank you both for being here. I am so grateful for this talk. It's been transformative for me, and this discussion has been such a game changer. Um, I'd like to finish with some rapid fire questions. Sure. For you guys?

SPEAKER_03 1:07:30

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:31

Okay. Um, what is one spiritual gift that the other person has? So, Wade, I want you to tell me one spiritual gift that Jen has. Jen, I want you to tell me one spiritual gift that Wade has.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:43

Wade has the spiritual gift of faith. Yeah, it's never wavering. Like we, when we go through trials, when we're faced with anything, his faith never wavers. He's like, okay, we're gonna get through this.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:54

And God's got us.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:55

Yes. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:56

Wow, that's a great one. I'm praying for that one right now. How about you, Wade?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:00

One of hers is teaching. She just has this ability to, especially to young children, to see, to see them and know what they need and bring things down at a level that they understand it. She just is amazing in the work that she does. She has this desire to help others and to teach. And so she does, she teaches um kids and teenagers with dyslexia. And just I I wouldn't have the patience to do what she does. But she's she's just amazing. She's always been a teacher with our children and in primary and church, everywhere she goes. She's a wonderful teacher.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:40

You you highlighted something I was gonna ask you that I'm gonna follow up with, which is that you have four phenomenal men that you've raised. How much has her teaching had to do with that?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:50

Absolutely a big part of it, very consistent. And it wasn't like we did these big grand things, but it was my home evening, daily scriptures, daily prayer, um, going to church, sign up online. Those little things.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:07

We learned early in life, or early in our marriage. We learned early in our marriage that it's the small and simple things that keep us strong and our children strong.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:17

It's the small and simple things that make gods isn't that amazing. Um, okay, favorite temple.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:24

Idaho Falls.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:26

Idaho Falls. Why?

SPEAKER_03 1:09:28

Actually, I'm gonna take that back.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:30

Yeah, I don't know if you can. It's on the air.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:33

Seth, is that his name? Seth. No, our editor.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:35

No, don't edit this, Seth. She's just joking. So what would you want to chison it to?

SPEAKER_03 1:09:39

Gilbert. Gilbert Temple. Okay, I'm gonna tell you why. We moved to Arizona. Okay, I can do this without crying. Yeah. Moved to Arizona 20 years ago without any family here. And uh, it wasn't until we got involved with the temple, the Gilbert Temple building and dedication open house, thank you, that we we just fell in love with the Gilbert Temple and we fell in love with Arizona. This is home. Our boys are Arizonians, and so the Gilbert Temple.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:11

That was a beautiful answer. Wade, what about you?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:14

Well, I have to say Oakland because that was my temple growing up. And what I think is very unique about it is that you can walk around on top of the temple, the Oakland Temple, and you can just it it's just a magical experience. You can look out across the whole bay and wonderful view. Um, but there's no other temple that you can climb on top of it and walk around.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:33

Oh, that's so cool. All right, where's somewhere in the world that you've been that's awesome, or somewhere in the world you'd like to go one day?

SPEAKER_03 1:10:40

Costa Rica. We went as our family. That's probably the best family vacation we've ever taken. And just on a whim, we saw tickets that were super cheap that we were gonna go for our 20th anniversary. And we're like, uh, we got to take our whole family. How can we not take our whole family at this price?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:56

That tells the audience about the quality of your boys because there's a lot of people to be like, a vacation's with your spouse, a trip is with your kids. But anyway, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:04

Anyway, so we took our whole family and it was magical, and our boys will always remember it. It was incredible, Costa Rica.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:10

Okay, what about you, Wade? Yeah, same. That was our our favorite family vacation, and nobody could decide their favorite activity. It was all unique and different, and and at the same time, it was eye-opening and to to take our kids to a third world country. You know, they've been in this little bubble for so long and seen so much affluence around them that going there and seeing some humble conditions was was also good too, to have that opportunity to teach and say not everybody lives like people in Gilbert.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:42

Well, listen, last question. And we, you know, this is a temple and family history podcast. So the last question is always the family history part. It's the one part that's family history, but it's the last part. You're this is the real benefit of this isn't the people who are watching as much as we love you guys. It's for your kids. It's for your future grandkids. So your grandkids are gonna see this. None of them are born yet. All of them are gonna see this at some point, and they're gonna see young Nana and Papa. I don't know what names you're gonna go with, but they're gonna see a young version of grandma and grandpa in their world. What do you want to what do you want them to know before they even arrive about their self-worth?

SPEAKER_03 1:12:16

Exactly what President Nelson said. You're a child of God, you're a child of the covenant, you're a disciple of Jesus Christ. This gospel is true. If you adhere to the commandments and you keep that goal in mind, your trials will, you won't be trial-free, but your trials will uh you'll be strengthened in your trials through Christ.

Grandkids Identity And Final Invitation

SPEAKER_01 1:12:38

I love that answer. Okay, Wade. Yeah, I just want them to know how much I love my Savior. He means everything to me. And it is through him that we can be saved. He's the only way. And I'm so grateful that God has given us these temples that we can experience closeness to our savior and to become more like him. It's so powerful, and I'm so grateful that we can do this family history work. Um, other people may have mentioned it on the podcast. I think it was Sister Bentley who who taught it to us that oftentimes we're called saviors on Mount Zion for doing this this temple work. But these people that we're doing the work for, they're our saviors because they keep us coming back. Without without these names to do, we wouldn't be able to go back. And so I'm so grateful for for the people who have gone before us and that we can do do their work. And again, I love my savior.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:37

Thank you guys for being on Temple Bound. We sure appreciate you guys being here. Thanks for having us. Thank you. Thanks again for listening to today's episode of Temple Bound. If you enjoyed today's show, make sure to join us over on Instagram at Temple Bound Podcast to receive additional information as well as previews of our upcoming episodes. See you over there.