Curtis Keller on Wholly Relying on Christ's Merits

In this powerful return episode, Curtis Keller joins host Will Humphreys for one of the most heartfelt conversations yet on Temple Bound. Curtis opens up about how a book recommendation from a friend transformed his approach to prayer, moving from rushed, going-through-the-motions prayers to intentional, timer-set, 10-minute morning conversations with God. That shift opened the door to a deeper reckoning: Do we really understand what it means to rely wholly upon the merits of Jesus Christ, or are we secretly trying to save ourselves?

This episode touches on grace vs. works, what "after all we can do" really means, the protective power of temple worship for our families, and how to keep parenting in faith even when children exercise their agency in unexpected ways. Curtis also shares his favorite temple quotes from Elder Bednar, Elder Vaughn J. Featherstone, President Nelson, and Richard G. Scott, drawn from the binder he's kept for years that first inspired this podcast.

We go deep on:

• The prayer habit that transformed Curtis's mornings (hint: a timer is involved)
• Why 15 minutes of daily prayer = exactly 1% of your day, and what that number should make us feel
• What "after all we can do" actually means, and why the common interpretation is quietly exhausting
• How the veil of the temple is a symbol of Jesus Christ, and why passing through it is a picture of pure grace
• What to do when your children make choices that break your heart
• Elder Bednar, President Nelson, Elder Featherstone & Elder Richard G. Scott quotes from Curtis's legendary binder

This episode will change how you pray. It will change how you attend the temple. And it might just bring peace to a parent who's been trying too hard to be their child's savior.

Resources Mentioned:

Temple Quote Binder Copy - https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1hMuPlfsN8dbYoCk5WAerBJt0Qpe0Ul-M?usp=sharing

Transcript

Follow The Show Request

SPEAKER_03 0:05

Before we start the episode, I have a small favor to ask. If Temple Bound has meant something to you, would you take a moment right now and follow the podcast and leave a comment on the app that you're listening to? When you follow and leave a comment, it helps the podcast show up for more people who are trying to learn, grow, and come closer to the teachings of the temple. It's free and it's simple, but it really makes a big difference. Thank you so much for being here. There's a difference between relying partially on the merits of Jesus Christ and relying wholly on them. And it's a difference that, when it finally landed for my guest today, changed the way he prays, the way he goes to the temple, and the way that he reads the scriptures about being saved after all we can do. Curtis Keller is back on Temple Bound, a returning favorite, a binder keeper of temple quotes and the original inspiration for this entire show. We taught grace, prayer, parenting through the hard moments, and the promise that when you walk into the Lord's house, his angels have charge over you. Welcome back. Curtis, welcome to the show on Temple Bound. I'm so excited to have you back, a repeat guest, one of our favorites. You had some thoughts about things that you were just on your mind that you wanted to share. And then we have got some really cool quotes we're going to get to today. This is going to be a really cool episode. So let's kick it off right away with what's

Eliminating Hurry To Pray Better

SPEAKER_03 1:20

been in your heart regarding prayer and all those things.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Definitely. So I uh Peter Sturgeon, a friend of mine, you probably know Peter. He's been on the show. Okay. Peter uh recommended that I read a book called The The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry. I don't know if you've heard it. It's uh I'm gonna write this down. The author is Mark, uh John Mark Comer. Okay. Ruthless Elimination of Hurry. I listened to it on Audible, it's like a five-hour lesson. He's a pastor of a church up in Oregon and realized that his life was getting out of hand, way too busy. So he just took a break and wanted to find God and Jesus in his life. And so the book is about hey, how do we get rid of this massive hurry that we're always in in life?

SPEAKER_04 2:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:00

Uh and it was awesome. And and then he kind of stepped back and said, Here's how, here's how I recommend it, and here's things we need to do to kind of connect with God on a daily basis. And he really emphasized connecting with God in the morning and how he takes an hour. And he, that's the first thing he does. And whether it's, you know, doing a devotional or reading scripture, whether it's just pondering in prayer. And um, and so so to back it up, I my prayers are horrible. Okay. My my night and morning prayers are.

SPEAKER_03 2:30

When you're rushed, mine are so when I'm rushing, I I have this, Curtis, I transparently a constant awareness of how I'm not taking advantage of that wonderful connection.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

No. I and I have my whole I'm 54 years old. I mean, when I learned to pray when I was a kid, I was probably 10, 11, and I would fall asleep saying my prayers in bed, okay? And and I heard my sister praying next door in the room next door, and she's like, I didn't know she was praying. I thought she was talking on the phone. You know, that's back in the day when you had a phone in your bedroom. And I snuck in there one night and I'm like, who is she talking to? And she was literally praying, crying, laughing, having these big conversations. And I went into my mom's room and said, What's going on? I never get answers to prayers. And Susan, they're talking to God like he actually, like she knows who he is. And um, so my mom said, Kurt, tell me how you pray. And I'm like, Well, I lay in bed. She's like, That's your problem. You gotta get on your knees and stand your knees and tell you feel like you want to be there. Yeah. And then you can be done with your prayers. So, fast forward 54 years, I had kind of lost that. And I was saying my prayers and going through the motions. And so a year and a half, two years ago, when my son was preparing for his mission, he was in a program preparing for his mission where they they committed them to praying on their knees for five minutes at night and five minutes in the morning.

SPEAKER_03 3:40

Only five minutes, which by the way, sounds like nothing, but that's a long time if you're not used to it.

SPEAKER_00 3:44

No, no, no. And and and we're gonna get into that because so so five minutes at night, five minutes in the morning, and you you literally set a timer. So I started doing this. I said, I am going to I'm gonna do this, and I'm gonna ponder and pray for five minutes. And so, you know, I kneel down in my bed at nighttime and I say, you know, Alexa, set the timer for five minutes, and then I pray. And and it was hard at first, but then when you really plead to Heavenly Father and say, Look, I want to know that you're hearing me. Yeah. Because there's a difference between prayer when we're just sitting there asking, versus when we know we've made a connection.

SPEAKER_03 4:21

And you're willing to wait, maybe, because you have you have time, because you've stopped. You know it's gonna be five minutes. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

So you can chill for five minutes. So I started doing this, and I started doing it in the morning for five minutes, and it just completely changed my prayers over the past year, year and a half. And so I read Mark's book, or Comer, yeah, John Mark Comer, and and I said, I'm gonna go 10 minutes in the morning. And that's like, I'm telling Amy, she's like, Have you ever prayed for 10 minutes? I'm like, I don't think so, you know? Maybe on my mission, right? Yeah, but but so I've started doing that. So five minutes night, 10 minutes in the morning. And it's amazing to me when you give yourself 10 minutes and you set a timer, yeah, and you don't you're not gonna do anything else. You know you've got that 10 minutes set aside. And that's what Comer was saying.

Timed Kneeling Prayer And The 1%

SPEAKER_00 5:05

Set aside the time, then you're not worried about anything else. So this has been great for me, but I want to go through what 15 minutes of prayer is in a day.

SPEAKER_02 5:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:16

What percentage of your time is that in a day? It's one percent of the minutes in a day. I think there's 1,664 minutes or something, if you can check my math. You divide that by, or 15 divided by that, and it's one percent. So I'm sitting there going, I'm thinking it's this really cool thing that I'm praying for 15 minutes a day. And it's been a great blessing in my life. But it's only one percent of all my time is praying to the being that can give me everything I need in life, that has sacrificed so much for me, gave his only son for me, and who I can receive all my peace, strength, and everything from. So it's just been a learning curve for me that prayer in my personal life needs to be so much better and so much more sincere.

SPEAKER_03 6:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:06

And it's gotta, you gotta have, I have to make the time to do it. But isn't that funny? 15 minutes is only.

SPEAKER_03 6:10

It's only one percent. It's interesting because in those times, I have a good friend of mine in in Wyoming who's who was recently a bishop, and he's starting, he's going down the same path that you are. And what he's done on his own volition, by the way, which give him kudos for this, is he said, once a week, I am gonna block an hour and pray. Now, this might sound insane to our audience. This might sound insane, but listen, he's a very like down-to-earth normal person. Yeah, they have some incredibly hard challenges in his life. And so he was doing the same thing that we do, which is how do we connect to that? So he decided I'm gonna block an hour and just stay in that position. And he says it has completely transformed his life. And I'm and and I only paint that as an example because more isn't always better. But this idea of like whatever is like but having enough time to ask the question. And he's challenged me to do something similar. And I've done a little bit here and there where I've had a longer prayer where I've timed it.

SPEAKER_01 7:01

Awesome.

SPEAKER_03 7:01

And in that space, what I've learned is that my heart tends to gravitate towards gratitude.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:07

And I start thinking of a lot more depth of things. And then when I when I'm asking for things, I start thinking of a lot more to ask for.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:14

But then there's these times where I'll ask for things and I've got nothing to mind, and I'll just sit there, like, and it's in that space where my mind will wonder that I realize that I'm being influenced.

SPEAKER_04 7:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:26

And so in that empty space is where I'm like, I was praying uh recently for something I'm doing at work, and I was, it's not that big of a deal, but it was like I'm something I'm nervous about. It's like a presentation or something. And I was just sitting in that dead space, and my mind started pondering because there was time. And then I started feeling like the spirit as I was thinking about like, wait a minute, oh, the I'm being I'm being given something I can do. And I sure enough, I wrote it down. And it's just this idea of like, if we can just communicate to the Lord in a in a conversational way, it were it's it's so much more powerful. But it's like what you're saying is we have to give it time.

SPEAKER_00 7:57

You gotta give it time. Even and it's not bad to set a timer, you know what I'm saying? Because then you're like, hey, I got five minutes, I'm not going anywhere.

SPEAKER_03 8:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:04

And it's okay to do that.

SPEAKER_03 8:06

I I I personally think, you know, I mean, well, is it is it is it is it romantic or not romantic to schedule date night? Yeah, that's a good point. If you schedule it, it's like so that's what I'll I hear from you is if you're setting a timer, you're telling the Lord, I'm giving you a priority.

SPEAKER_00 8:18

Well, plus, but when that timer goes off,

Silence That Makes Space For Revelation

SPEAKER_00 8:20

a lot of the times I'm like, you know, shut off timer and I keep going because you've got more into that prayer. Yeah. You you know, think when you I love what you just said there, you're praying, and then things will come into your mind and it'll lead you down a path. In Third Nephi, when Christ visits um the people in the in the Book of Mormon after the destruction, there is a scripture, and I can't think of it right now, but it says that they did not multiply many words, for it was given to them what they should pray for.

SPEAKER_03 8:47

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 8:48

So the Holy Ghost I mean, inspire you on what you're saying. Exactly. So think about that. Like in Kate, the prayer is in in in it look in my experience, and I'm not speaking for the church or anybody here, it's the only place where at one time we invoke all three members of the Godhead.

unknown 9:07

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 9:08

So let's think about that. We're praying to our Heavenly Father in and through the name of Jesus Christ. We can only pray to Heavenly Father because we've been reconciled to God through the atonement of Jesus Christ. So that's why we pray to God through the atonement of Jesus Christ, through Jesus Christ. And then we're asking for the guidance of the Holy Ghost to lead and direct our thoughts through revelation and inspiration. So prayer is so much deeper than I've ever thought it was. And in my as I've been trying to pray longer, these thoughts have been coming to me. Like, Kurt, you you are prayer, you're entering holy sacred ground because you're engaging all three members of the Godhead. And when you do that and you're sincere about it, things happen like what happened to you. You you you you don't multiply words because it's given to you what you need to be praying about, or it's going to give you revelation or inspiration.

SPEAKER_03 10:03

I think there's so much mercy in that statement, Curtis, because we're we're we sometimes we've been told knock and it shall be open, right? So we don't sometimes our prayer is our knocking, but sometimes we don't even know what we need. So what we're hearing in that scripture is that we will be given through the Holy Ghost what it is we should ask or knock about.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 10:23

And and it's so powerful. I think the one thing we have to do with our agency is provide that space and time. And you know this, um, as a very uh organically not successful business owner, I went through a great deal of stress. And so I learned how to meditate, which I'm a big fan of. I'm a big fan of meditation, but it's evolved because what I have found in those times where I've scheduled time for prayer, in the scriptures, we talk about prayer and meditation and kind of going together, but I've learned that like although I love my meditation, the prayer is the ultimate form of meditation because when there's time, when I give it the time to let the mind just rest and settle on on what God's will is and just whatever comes to mind. But it's interesting because I do have to create that space. And I've done it a few times with a with a timer where um I've gone through the whole thing and I'm like, well, I didn't really have much to say today. Yeah it's not like but I'm I'm surprised more times than not how many things come to mind or people that come to mind or situations. And then I think one time I had someone come to mind and I thought, wonder, wonder if they're okay. And I checked in on

Temple Power That Follows You Home

SPEAKER_03 11:30

them, and sure enough, you know, like there's just we have to create that space in order for it to happen. So thank you for sharing that. Yeah. Because when we talk about the temples, all we're talking about is becoming like Jesus and being connected to Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 11:42

And so what we don't have to go to the temple of our Lord in order to start that connection.

SPEAKER_00 11:48

Well, you know, son the vast majority of the time, too, the connection to Christ that we seek in the temple doesn't occur uh in the temple. It occurs outside of the temple. It occurs as we are going through life and we're taking from life the power and the blessings that come from the temple. You know, Doctrine Company 109.22 says that his power is upon us, his name's upon us, his glory is round about us, and his angels have charge over us. So when we're leaving that temple, a lot of the experiences that we're seeking in the temple, sometimes, I think a lot of the times, they will happen outside of the temple as we're pondering and praying and studying our scriptures.

SPEAKER_03 12:28

So yeah, and in the temple, as we know, we are modeled the true order for us to be able to organize our thoughts and talk. So when you talk about prayer, all we're talking about is talking to God.

SPEAKER_04 12:37

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 12:37

And when we're in the temple, that's a way to get instruction on how we can learn to in and and what modeling it looks like. And I think it's a beautiful thing that we have that ability to access the Lord in our closets because He'll bless us openly as a result of that. Absolutely. So I love that. That's a wonderful thought.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

Yeah, is it it is and it just makes me realize that if I'm only spending one percent of my day in prayer, I've got to make it worth my while.

SPEAKER_03 13:00

Now I get the sense that you talk to him throughout the day.

SPEAKER_00 13:03

I do, I do definitely. But I think that there's definitely a difference between me talking to him as I'm driving to work or as I'm you know riding my bike or what have you, and just in in my office at home in a quiet,

An AI Morning Briefing Meets Spiritual Prep

SPEAKER_00 13:15

you know, sacred place where I'm just focused on that, you know.

SPEAKER_03 13:19

Yes, I have I have a thought I'm sharing that I've I've actually never implemented, so just realize this is something that I think is a good idea, never done this. Yeah, but um so AI is all the rage right now. And so there's all these things that are out there. There is an AI uh agent that I have organized who prepares my day every day for me.

SPEAKER_04 13:36

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_03 13:36

It's it's like I asked Claude, hey, I want to learn how to work with AI. What should I even do? It's like, well, you should make your own agent. Well, how do I do that? Well, first you got to pick a topic. And I said, What's the topic? It's like the easiest, most useful thing would be an agent you could build that would prepare you for your day. So here's what it does. It took me about 45 minutes. I'm I'm not naturally inclined in that area. It walked me through like I was in in a kindergarten and I set up this computer agent. But it's so cool because what it does is that it goes through each of my meetings on my calendar, links to my Google Calendar, it looks through everything.

SPEAKER_00 14:06

Claude looks into Google Calendar. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 14:07

It goes through the agent does. Claude helped me build it. So now it's an actual program that lives on my computer that will go through every morning at 6 a.m. It reads every single person's name who's there, and here's what's cool. It goes on the internet and researches everything there is to know about this person.

SPEAKER_01 14:21

Right.

SPEAKER_03 14:21

It finds every website they're mentioned, every social post they've ever made, goes through every email that's ever been included in their name or references. That's amazing. And then it summarizes and assumes, like, okay, given the context of this meeting, given the historical information that I found, here are three questions to ask. Here's what success of that meeting looks like, here's why I say all this is that my my ability to execute throughout my day has significantly increased because of five minutes of me reading this email every morning. And so when I think about prayer, it's amazing. It is amazing. And I think this is just scratching the surface, but we have something so much, so much an access to the not just someone who can research everything, but like gave created everything. And when we take five minutes to spend that time in preparation, our ability to execute spiritually, I execute's probably the long wrong word, but live our lives starts to become dramatically more impactful. And then the few times that I've done this where I've prayed longer in the morning, my experience has been that I do carry more of that conversation throughout the day. So before little things here and there, I go, Yeah, oh, Helen Father, can you help me with this? Or honestly, just a minute ago we had a technical issue trying to get things started. Yeah, I was in the other room praying, like Hellmanny Father, I don't know how to get this corrupted disc over. Yeah, and here we are. So it's just I think there's something really powerful in that, in that 1%. The Lord is

Relying Wholly On Christ Not Ourselves

SPEAKER_03 15:40

able to magnify that 1% to really stretch and make a difference.

SPEAKER_01 15:43

So true. So true.

SPEAKER_03 15:44

So you talked about prayer.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

So so then then the other day while I was praying. Let's go. Um, you know, a lot of my prayer is trying to learn how to appreciate the atonement of Jesus Christ. Look, how many times do we say, I am thankful for Jesus Christ? I'm thankful for Heavenly Father. And do we really know why we're thankful? Do we really know what Jesus Christ did for us? And do we appreciate that, right? Like, I mean, it's amazing to me that we all we all start in the telestial world. We are all going to be saved, except for a very few people. You start that way. When you're born, you're gonna receive a glory.

SPEAKER_02 16:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:21

So sometimes I think personally I take that for granted. And I think sometimes we take it for granted because we think, oh, well, yeah, I'm I'm gonna be saved. Well, why are we gonna be saved? Because of Jesus. So a lot of my prayers are like, hey, Heavenly Father, will you please help me to appreciate? Yes, like truly appreciate the atonement of Jesus Christ. Like understanding it's really difficult, and I don't know if I'll ever get that, right? But at least appreciating why it's so miraculous, infinite, and eternal. So I was thinking about this one day, and it the the scripture came to mind that, you know, relying wholly upon the merits of him who is mighty to save. And that just came to mind as I was praying. I'm like, that is the best scripture, relying wholly upon the him, uh, upon the merits of him who is mighty to save. And it's funny because I'm like, oh, where is that scripture? And I couldn't remember. And so literally during my prayers, I'm like, Alexa, where does it say relying wholly upon him who is mighty to upon the merits of him who is mighty to save? Boom. That's in 2 Nephi chapter 31, verse 19, where it's talking about the atonement of Jesus Christ. And it was hilarious. Alexa like knew the book of Mormon.

SPEAKER_03 17:21

She chimed in on your prayer.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

Uh yeah, she chimed in because I asked her to. So Alexa was helping me out in my prayer. But the point of that is it just as I was praying to get an appreciation for the atonement of Jesus Christ, we rely wholly upon the merits of Jesus. Not partially. Okay, it's it's not, hey, Kurt, you gotta do everything, and then Jesus Christ is gonna make up 10%. That scripture, and then Moroni 6, chapter 4, or 6 chapter 6, says that one says relying alone upon the merits of Christ in Moroni. This one in 2 Nephi says relying holy. And it was just a reminder to me that yes, we participate in ordinances, yes, we make covenants with our Heavenly Father, but those are gifts, those are gifts from Jesus Christ because of the atonement that help us along the path. At the end of the day, we are saved wholly through the merits. And what are merits? Merits are his actions, his deeds, what he did. So it has nothing to do. I I have to strive and I have to repent. But as long as I do that, his merits and mercy and grace will save me.

SPEAKER_03 18:33

Powerful. You know, Curtis, I love how you describe that because I love how you were praying, and that was what came to mind.

SPEAKER_00 18:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:39

I want to ask a question to you. You know, one of the big things that people who aren't of our faith will look at and they'll say, wait a minute. This is my uncle, by the way. He's like, you guys, it's all about grace. What you just said, he would be like, Yes, that's exactly what we believe. So how do you reconcile or explain to people things that we say, like, it is uh is grace by we were saved after all we can do? Like, how do you how do you measure or quantify our element of that process, or how do you how does that look for you based on what you just said?

SPEAKER_00 19:10

I mean, that's a great question. When you take a look at what you said there, 2 Nephi, 25, 26, or whatever chapter that is, after all we can do, you know, so many people have said that's you know, after everything we can do, we're still saved.

SPEAKER_03 19:23

The idea that like our works are like you said earlier, the people take that to mean 80% is us getting there, and then it's Jesus taking us the rest of the way.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

And yeah, and I used to think that. I I used to think, and it puts so much more stress on me, and it puts it makes me think I am the person that is saving myself.

SPEAKER_03 19:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 19:43

And I've thought that a lot in my life that hey, I'm gonna save myself. I am reading my scriptures every day, I'm paying my tithe, and I'm going to church on Sunday. But the more I read my scriptures and the more I attend the temple, and the more I learn about the infinite and eternal atonement. I was praying just the other day and I was thinking about the infinite and eternal atonement. And then you know what the words came into mind? Kurt, your sins are infinite and eternal. So it needs an infinite and eternal atonement to overcome your infinite and eternal sins.

SPEAKER_03 20:12

That's beautiful because that's true. Like these things that we do, small or large, it doesn't matter. Anything that takes us away from the presence of the Savior is enough to be infinite and eternal. Because there's that's why there's no such thing as like these big or small sins. There's different gradients of repentance, but there's that thing called separation, and it's it's infinite and eternal without his sacrifice.

SPEAKER_00 20:32

Right. No, and and so so now I want to tie in 2 Ephi chapter 2, verse 8. This says, you know, how great the importance to make these things known to everybody, that nobody can dwell in the presence of God save it be through the merits and mercy and grace of Jesus Christ. So so going back to how much do we do and how much does Jesus do, it is all Jesus. Yes. Like there's there's literally nothing that we do that saves us. Right. Unless we're doing something that Jesus has asked us to do. So so I am supposed to get baptized. So is that something I'm doing, or is it a gift that Jesus has given me that when I participate in it, I'm cleansed and I receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. When I receive the priesthood, or I or I am ordained to the priesthood, that is a gift from Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ that enables me to go closer to Jesus. When I receive my endowment in the temple, it is a gift that it's not my action, it's Heavenly Father and Jesus are saying, here's a gift for you. And when you receive this gift, I'm gonna give you power, my name's gonna be upon you, my glory is gonna be round about you, and my angels have charge over you. Everything we do is doing what Jesus has asked us to do to draw more fully upon his atonement, and every step allows us to draw more upon. That atonement from baptism to priesthood to temple endowment to temple sealing. And so we rely wholly upon his merits. Because if I relied even one percent of my merits, I have don't have charity. And I'm terrible at charity. And I pray all the time for charity. And and I don't know how it's gonna happen, but as long as I'm faithful, his merits, his mercy, his grace will make up for my gross lack of charity. You know, and so so I we are saved wholly by our Savior Jesus Christ. And when we do those things or take an action, we're doing something he's asked us to do or given us the gift to be able to partake of.

SPEAKER_03 22:44

Yeah, I hear that scripture differently now based on that wonderful answer. The the way I hear after all we can do isn't a measure of effort. Yeah, it's it's the free will we give to accept the gift. All we can do that's a good point, yeah. All we can do is accept the gift. And what is accepting a gift look like? Because even even people who aren't directly of our faith, this is again a big thing with in it within our extended family on my side, is that the argument we're we're we're kind of splitting hairs in a sense because we're saying the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:12

Because at the end of the day, by by choosing grace, you know, by choosing grace, by accepting the savior, right? The one thing you do is that's still an action. Yeah, that's an action. That's the and my that action is what is just a receiving of a gift. And so when we talk about grace, I think that's a powerful way to think of it, is that our effort is inspired by us wanting to be like the savior, but it's we don't need to confuse that with like uh a measure of like how well we're doing to be to be worthy of being saved. It's like we're never gonna be worthy, it's always about just accepting the gift. If we can keep accepting that gift, that's the action it talks about, is what I'm hearing.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

Yes. And and God wants to save all of us. He wants all of us to be exalted. And so he's gonna give us every chance to do that. But there's nothing that you and I can do to bridge that gap but to be reconciled to God. It can we can only be reconciled to God, we can only pray to God through Jesus Christ. And so you think about that scripture. No one can stand in the presence of God save it be through. In the temple, we go from telestial to terrestrial to celestial, but going from terrestrial to celestial, we pass through a veil. And we know that that veil from President Nelson and from prophets, the veil of the temple is symbolic of Jesus Christ. And it's just and it's an amazing thing that we are passing, we can be in the presence of God, like 2 Nephi says, through the merits and mercy and grace of Jesus Christ. When we are passing the veil of the temple, we are basically passing through the merits and mercy and grace, and that is what enables us to go into the presence of God and enter the slasher room.

SPEAKER_03 24:53

You know, I love that moment at the veil. Um, you know, because we think about the scripture, you know, no one cometh unto the Father but by me. And that's a great example of that because if if the veil represents Jesus Christ, the person officiating on the other side represents the Lord.

SPEAKER_01 25:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:08

And so I I had a guest talk about how what they like to imagine is that the veil isn't vertical, but horizontal. Okay. And we're being we're being lifted into the presence. And there's that kind of symbolic idea that you just mentioned that it is a hundred percent grace. We are not climbing, but we are receiving the Lord and letting him letting him through the merits of Jesus Christ bring us into his presence. It's like this idea of like, yeah, all we're doing, our actions are just receiving the gift. And that and so I think that's so important because I will tell you, as a father, I thought I had something to do with a big thing to do with my salvation after all I can do.

SPEAKER_01 25:49

Everything.

SPEAKER_03 25:49

And I thought that was me, but guess what that translated to as a father? I've got to be my kid's savior too. Yep. And it was through various trials we went through that I realized I am not my kid's savior.

SPEAKER_01 26:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:01

Does that mean I don't do anything? No, because because I'm here to learn, I'm here to take actions, but it's like everything else we do and we learn in the scriptures is that we have our agency and he blesses us, even down to our prayers, like you mentioned earlier, can be can be influenced or even inspired by the Holy Ghost that we know to even pray for. So is it really coming from us at all?

SPEAKER_01 26:21

Totally.

SPEAKER_03 26:22

Is it really even coming from us at that point? No, it's like we we can't confuse the tool with the person wielding it. If we choose to be a tool, we are an up, we are being leveraged in the Lord's hands for his will.

SPEAKER_00 26:33

Yeah, no, totally. I going back to that question, Seg Nephi chapter 10. The question on mercy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Grace versus works. Please. Second Nephi 10, 24. Wherefore, my beloved brethren, reconcile yourself reconcile yourselves to the will of God and not to the will of the devil in the flesh. And remember, after ye are reconciled unto God, okay, that it is only in and through the grace of God that you're saved.

SPEAKER_03 26:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 27:00

It's very simple.

SPEAKER_03 27:01

He better defines all you can do by talking about reconciling yourself to reconcile yourself to God.

SPEAKER_00 27:05

How do we rec so so people that are are not LDS say, oh, you guys got to do these works. And and I get it. They they say that, but we say, no, all we have to do to receive celestial glory and exaltation is accept Jesus Christ. Totally. That's literally, that's all we have to do. So what does it mean to accept Jesus Christ? It means to receive the gifts that He has said, I'm gonna give you these gifts and they will make you closer to me. They'll bind you to me. They're gonna bind us to Christ and God. That's what President Nelson says. Our covenants bind us to God. When I was a kid, my dad would walk up to my grandma's house and we were in the pitch black mountains of North Bend, Washington. And I did not, I would, it was like, Dad, you're crazy. He'd go up there every night to play cards with her. And one night he said, Come up with me. It's a quarter mile walk up a logging road. There's no lights, nothing. It is pitch black, like as dark as it was when the Nephites uh had the destruction. You know, it was dark. And he's like, Come up with me. I'm like, no, and what all I did, I grabbed onto my dad's arm and I closed my eyes and I walked. And I got there safely. But I literally was just clinging and like a vice grip on my dad's arm because I was so scared. And I didn't want to open my eyes because I didn't want to see the bear attack us, right? But but that's how our salvation is. We grab onto Jesus Christ and just step as he walks with us. But ultimately, he's the one getting us there. And so it's just these little steps we're taking to receive the ordinances that he has given us.

SPEAKER_03 28:30

Yes, and these and then it's interesting because you look at the ordinances, that's where it's so interesting to me to go back into the Old Testament. And whether there was physical temples or whether there were mountains, yeah, since the beginning of time, the God was never saying, Come climb the mountain, Moses, because it's a commandment for you to do it. He was saying, I've got information, these ten commandments, and there was more. There wasn't, you know, like I've got this information for you and all of your people to help you be happy.

SPEAKER_00 28:57

Right.

SPEAKER_03 28:58

He was just asking if they would just receive the gift. And so that's what the temple is to us. It's not a prerequisite prerequisite to get into heaven. We're not qualifying by going. We are receiving the savior the way you clung to your dad.

SPEAKER_00 29:10

Jesus Christ is qualifying us.

SPEAKER_03 29:12

But Jesus Christ is leaving.

SPEAKER_00 29:13

When we go to the temple, Christ is then qualifying us through his atonement. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:19

And he meets us wherever we are. This is one of the big things I love about our faith, and this is one of the biggest things, is the idea that, like, if someone was born and didn't have any of these restored truths, no. If they just had whatever light and knowledge they had, if they if they accepted that, whatever that is, there's still there's still this requirement of accepting Jesus, right? There's still baptism. These things aren't that's where justice comes in. Those things come are there, but it's that the Lord's gonna give them ample opportunity in this life or the next to truly hear it all out. And that's why when I look at the temple or the house of the Lord, I look at it as the the great equalizer, yeah, the quintessential uh chance for all of us to go back home because of that truth. So it's it's a beautiful thing.

SPEAKER_00 30:02

Yeah, I mean it's awesome and it it helps us really when we when when we consider that we are reconciled to God through Jesus Christ, everything, every bit of salvation is through Christ and his atonement, you know.

SPEAKER_03 30:16

I feel so happy. I'm so happy to think about the effort that I make. I didn't really think I held on to it that tightly, but it it's completely clear on me now after hearing you that like when it comes to my effort, if the the thing that I'm responsible for, it's accepting the Savior and His gifts. That's it. Ever that is, and it's not a matter of me doing it, it's it's just me, He's giving it to me.

SPEAKER_00 30:35

Everything is given, everything, everything. And you you we have to keep repenting, but that's it. I mean, we as long as we're trying to do what we're supposed to do, these gifts he's given us, he will exalt us as long as we're doing what we're supposed to do. And you know, I mean, I I've prayed so often, I've prayed so many times uh to not get angry at my kids, to have charity. And I don't know that I'll be able to do that in this life, you know, as good as I should, in order to be with Heavenly Father, but uh Jesus Christ will make me equal to that. Yeah, he will He will make that charity come around because how could we stand in the presence of Jesus or God and not be completely consumed by their love? Completely consumed by their love so that we have no ill will towards anybody. I mean, think of the people in the Nephites. After they had Jesus Christ appear to them, they had 175 years where there was no contention.

SPEAKER_03 31:34

They they felt his presence. It resonated through generation and then changed their their nature so that they changed their children's nature, but as man does, yeah, it just evolves and that further away we fall, the fall further we fall. So thank you for sharing. I think your the thought about prayer, the thought about

Temple Quotes On Protection And Covenant Fire

SPEAKER_03 31:50

like you know, grace and mercy was a beautiful tie into the temple. One of the things that you created, and I love that we're doing this today, is you create you always keep a track of every quote that you like or have heard about the temple and family history. And and you're the reason Temple Bound exists, by the way. People who don't have this audience. Well, the Lord is the reason, but I will say uh Curtis was the inspiration. I was really looking for some answers in my life, and I heard you speak at state conference, and we have our state conference come in a few weeks ago. It was, and by the way, this was on the Saturday evening.

SPEAKER_01 32:20

Saturday is always the best.

SPEAKER_03 32:21

That's that's the one where you get the big answers in my mind. I never want to go, but that's where the answers come. And Saturday evening, uh, you spoke about temples and it started this whole journey that has led us to the show. And you kept track of all these wonderful quotes. And so we're gonna do um just some rapid fire back and forth of some of the quotes that you have here. Uh we'll take take three or five each and just kind of go through and and take turns sharing a quote that we like and why. And if it leads to some discussion, we'll we'll go there. But um, we just kind of mean this as a cool way of sharing with the audience some really powerful messages about the temple and family history to help them as they're listening. And I hope as people are listening, they'll they'll get as much out of these quotes as we have.

SPEAKER_00 32:57

And if people want to copy this, feel free to send it to them if anybody messes. Yeah, we'll put this we'll put these are not my quotes. These are this is a compilation of other people's quotes.

SPEAKER_03 33:06

For 1099. You can just kidding. Or just as we're gonna attach these in the show notes. So if you want any of these quotes, this is a you know, I'm showing on the camera for those of you here watching. Uh my wife and producer Heather uh created this binder of these quotes that we have used in reference throughout the show. And it's this is actually not even complete because you uh you update it constantly. So we'll add that document into the show notes.

SPEAKER_00 33:26

Also in the most recent version with I update it after every conference.

SPEAKER_03 33:30

So okay, we'll take it away. What's one of your for one of your quotes that you left?

SPEAKER_00 33:33

Um, you know, as I have a 16-year-old, and you know, 16-year-olds struggle. This is a quote from uh Richard G. Scott that says, Do you young people want a sure way to eliminate the influence of the adversary in your life? Immerse yourself in searching for your ancestors, prepare their names for the sacred vicarious ordinances available in the temple, and then go to the temple to stand as proxy for them to receive the ordinances of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost. I can think of no greater protection from the influence of the adversary in your life. Wow. It's amazing. And that's that's from our prophet, Seer and Revelator, somebody who we sustain as an apostle of God.

SPEAKER_03 34:11

Why do you think that why do you think that is the cause and effect of that? Why does do preparing temple names and connecting to ancestors result in that wonderful blessing of overcoming like what's the connection between those two? Or maybe it's not.

SPEAKER_00 34:24

No, I mean, I no, I think I think the connection, there's so many different things. I mean, there's other quotes in here that that uh say that when you do work for your ancestors, they are then doing work for you. They're praying for you, they're trying to help you. Wow. You know, so you've got you've got ancestors pulling for you on the other side. You've been in the house of the Lord, okay? And 109.22 says that his name's upon us, his power is with us, his glory is about us, and these angels have charge over us. So if we're going to the temple regularly and we have those four blessings, then the adversary is going to be seriously weakened when we walk out of that temple full of light. And we don't even know it.

SPEAKER_03 35:04

We don't conscious to it. Maybe we are based on our faith, but like maybe not.

SPEAKER_00 35:08

We're not. But there is a there is a miraculous blessing that occurs. And we don't know. I mean, how many times do I thank Heavenly Father? And I say, I'm so grateful for X, Y, and Z. But you know what, Heavenly Father, I repent for because there's way more blessings we get I get that I don't realize. And so I'm like, Heavenly Father, thank you. I thank thee for all those blessings. Same when we come out of the temple. We're we're receiving a spiritual protection because we've been in God's house. And um, and I think that is a natural result of that. Is that we're getting our ancestors are praying for us. God is putting his power upon us and his glory upon us, and we go out. I mean, remember Moses, you know, he knew it wasn't God because he said, Your glory's weak. You know, I just stood in the presence of God, his glory was amazing, your glory's weak to Lucifer. So when we go to the temple, our glory is powerful. And when we're doing that, I think it gives us that that power.

SPEAKER_03 36:01

That's a great answer. It reminds me of when we were working together in the uh state temple, you know, at the end of the day. Oh, yes, yeah, temple. And there was that training from Elder Bret Bednar that where he talked about the order of things in our church, and so many times culturally, we put mission for young people above all things. And his whole piece was like, no, you come to the savior, and then once you're connected to the savior, then you go to the temple. And it's in the temple that you make those sacred covenants in what we've just discussed, and how we think of it now is receive his gifts. Yes. We accept the savior, then we receive his gifts, then we go share with the world. Yep. And it's this last thing called mission is a byproduct of these first first things. And I think that's why is because it's hard, especially in this generation. They go through incredible challenges.

SPEAKER_00 36:41

Yeah. All right. Well, and and then Elder Bednar, I'm not gonna read you his whole quote, but Elder Bennar, I have these quotes right next to each other on page three. And I he says, if you youth do temple work regularly, I promise you will be protected against the intensifying influence of the adversary. As you participate in and love this holy work, you will be safeguarded in your youth and throughout your lives. Come on. Seriously. Safeguarded. Safeguarded. Like, like, I mean, I'm just I read these two to my son. I'm like, Luke, please go to the temple. Like, I'm not gonna, you know, I I I I'm not gonna force you to go to the temple, but look what you can have if you do it.

SPEAKER_03 37:20

And I safeguard it. And all these things come in in the Lord's timing and in the Lord's way. I think a lot of people who struggle with addiction, oftentimes when they're doing these righteous things, they're going to the temple, they'll tell you that like it's not like the temple takes away those things, but what it does after they've been through the journey is immeasurable. And when people have severe loss, when someone's loved someone dear, we've had a number of people on the show who've lost dear ones who talk about how it's almost impossible to put into words, but they get a front row to heaven in the face of horrible, horrible pain.

SPEAKER_01 37:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:52

And it's that perspective, it's the gifts and all these countless things that we still don't even know yet. We can't put words. That was a great answer, and it's probably the beginning of a longer answer as to how the Lord blesses us and fulfills that that promise given by Tom Perry.

SPEAKER_01 38:04

Yeah, yeah. Uh Richard G. Scott. Sorry. Sorry. And Elder Bednar. Sorry.

SPEAKER_03 38:10

And honestly, I said that immediately like the musician came to my mind. I'm like, what am I even talking about? Thank you, Curtis. All right.

SPEAKER_01 38:16

I have those you go now.

SPEAKER_03 38:18

Okay, okay. So I love this one. Going to Elder Bednar, um, I bear solemn witness that the fire of the covenant will burn in the heart of every faithful member of this church who shall worship honorably and hold the name and standing in the Lord's holy house. I love the idea that the fire of the covenant will burn in the heart. Because when we hear covenants, especially as a young person going through the temple for the first time, all we're told is they're important. And then you see the passion from the older people, which is now us, yeah, talking about it. But that fire, you know, I think about what we promise to do with obedience and sacrifice, with with the all these different promises we make. These aren't things that will be forced upon us for compliance.

SPEAKER_01 38:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:59

It will burn in us like a fire, and it's in that spirit that makes us want to do those things is what turns us into new creatures, as they say in the scriptures. It's that desire of like wanting. And again, I don't think when we're changing to new creatures that we are completely invalidating the old. I think it takes the best of what we've been, the best of who we are, and then upgrades it. That's all it is. It's an upgrade in a way that we don't lose our individuality. And that was one of my son's biggest concerns when going on a mission. He's like, I'm just not like everybody else. And I said, the Lord doesn't want you to be like everybody else. He wants you to be individual. And you know who I'm talking about. Like this is a very individualistic person, and the Lord is gonna just amplify the greatness that's already in him, in us and you and me. And it's that it will burn like a fire. And that's one of my favorite hymns, is hymn number two, the Spirit of God. So when we think about that passion, yeah, I think about depression. I think about people who lose their way, who just wonder why we exist, or people who are going through trials and wondering what the point of all this is. Yeah that fire that burns within us, those covenants, is a reason for existing, it's a purpose, and it draws us not only to the savior, but to our eternal nature. Yeah. And that is something that um is worth living for.

SPEAKER_00 40:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:11

No, I love and you know, but just like with a fire, if a fire is not stoked, if it's not given wood, it, you know, we become it's like the people in um oh Mosiah, not yeah, Mosiah, where it says they had no more disposition to do evil but to do good continually. I always think, did they really, was that just in that instant? Yeah. Or was that forever? And I believe that that was in the instant. Okay, I I like to believe that. Because after general conference, the fire is burning with me. Yeah, and I'm like, I'm gonna do everything right. And then the next morning I yell at my son or I'd kick my dog, or you know, and I know. You don't really, but yeah, I got your point. My point, like the fire, for us to keep that fire burning, we have to keep attending the temple. We have to keep and which reads leads me to my next quote. This is a bednark quote. Let's go. I have come to understand better the protection available through our temple covenants and what it means to make an acceptable offering of temple worship. Isn't that interesting? Temple worship is an offering. We are serving, we are laying something upon the altar. He says there is a difference, and this is so key. There's a difference between church attending tithe paying members who occasionally rush into the temple to go through a session, and those members who faithfully and consistently worship in the temple. Yes. I mean, that's just I mean, so you talk about the fire. Yes, the fire is gonna burn with us in the temple. But if we go back to just rushing in and not spending time pondering, I mean, I think in the last uh podcast we talked about, hey, get there a little bit early. How to worship. How to worship. And and the minute we kind of step back from that worship, the fire can start to go down a little bit. And that fire that burns. So when we become a new creation, a new creature, I think that hopefully is over time ultimately arise. But there's going to be ups and downs. And I think we all have to remember that and be on guard for the complacency that kind of puts our fire out.

SPEAKER_03 42:11

Absolutely. And and I think something to tie in something you said earlier. Stoking the fire is not earning our way into heaven. Dude. It's like going back to that connection. I think we I just I'm doing this for me. Is the idea that like when I'm stoking the fire, it's so that I can reignite that passion as to why I'm actually here, so that I can be a tool in the Lord's hands, and there's nothing greater in this existence than being in the hands of someone who loves you, clinging to your father's arm as he takes you to a promised land, literally or or or metaphorically. So when we when we make those decisions, we need to be louder, I think, in just saying we are not earning heaven.

SPEAKER_01 42:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 42:51

We are not earning by our actions. We are just fulfilling, we are accepting that gift.

SPEAKER_01 42:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:58

It's a gift to have that passion burning inside of us. It's a gift to not have the adversary breathing down our necks because we have the glory of God upon us. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:05

You okay. So in the handbook, it tells us what it we make five covenants in the temple, law of obedience, law of sacrifice, the law of the gospel. Part of the law of the gospel, and I'm this is from the handbook of Church and Sacred, is receiving God's ordinances.

SPEAKER_03 43:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 43:21

When we receive his ordinances, it's not our it's going back to what you're saying here. We got to stoke that fire. Stoking that fire is receiving his ordinances. It's taking actions in our life that that show to God that, yeah, I'm receiving your ordinances. I've gone to the temple, so I'm gonna love my brother. I'm gonna go serve people. I'm gonna love God, I'm gonna love my neighbor. I am going to pray. I'm going to take these actions that show you, Jesus, that I am receiving the gift that you have given me. And when we do that, the fire burns. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:53

And I think the language is very specific on receiving the ordinance. Because what is an ordinance?

SPEAKER_00 43:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:58

It's an action that I am doing.

unknown 44:00

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 44:00

So it's easy to confuse as I am doing something, therefore I am creating the output. But think about the savior when he was uh helping the blind man see.

SPEAKER_01 44:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:09

He he had a he spit in the mud and rubbed. That was an ordinance. There was a washing afterwards. There was an anointing and there was a washing. And Emily Bell Freeman in a recent podcast talked about how there is power. We always confuse the idea of like ordinances and covenants go hand in hand.

SPEAKER_01 44:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:26

And they are peanut butter and jelly, but they stand alone. There's power specifically in receiving those ordinances. So these are actions that we are taking, but there's there's something that's going on there educationally.

SPEAKER_01 44:38

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 44:38

Uh especially if we're starting to like spend some time with the spirit trying to understand and decode these things a little bit for us as to what they mean that will impact us and ultimately bring us closer to the savior. So it's just powerful to think about these eternal uh impacts as a result of receiving the ordinances. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 44:56

And receiving is we're doing something. We're receiving a gift that Jesus has given us.

SPEAKER_03 45:01

Yes. And that's the action. All right, I've got another one I love, and this is something that I'm I want to get to before you do, because I know this is one that you're you're a fan of. Um okay, I this is kind of similar to what you said earlier, but it's this Elder Von J. Featherstone. I think you know which one this is on the front page. It's one of my favorite all time. I promise you that all who faithfully attend the temple attend to temple work. And notice how he says to temple work, right? Like there's elements around that, like family history, will be blessed beyond measure. Your families will draw closer to the Lord, unseen angels will watch over your loved ones when satanic forces tempt them. The veil will be thin, and great spiritual experiences will distill upon this people. Not just your family, but this people. You bless yourself, your children, and the people by attending to temple work. And I loved especially this comment about watch over your loved ones when satanic forces tempt them. I think satanic forces for people who aren't members of our faith would look at that as a little bit extreme. Like, you know, like a movie, like a horror movie, satanic forces. I'm talking about pornography. Yes, I'm talking about loneliness, depression, all the mental illnesses that you and I could do a whole nother podcast on that this generation is facing. These are not coming from God. And if they're not coming from God and it's destructive, who is it coming from? I I said this when I spoke recently at a church meeting that we were at, is that if God is real, so is Satan. And I and I think it's incredibly important and something that's been pivotal in my journey is learning to discern what influences are coming from where. As we hear in general conference, we are not the voices in our head. So when there's a thought that enters our mind that is hurtful, wrong, or destructive, we don't know because it's just a thought in our head. But we have to recognize, oh, that's that's the byproduct of something that's not true to my eternal nature. If I am a born of light and I'm a child of God and I'm direct from him, that's not coming from him. So being able to make that discernment, in the in a there's a book by uh Dennis Deaton, who's been a guest on the show, he's a stake patriarch who wrote a book called Look Into Christ and Every Thought, Doubt Not, Fear Not. It's one of my favorite books. I think it should be required reading for teenagers, because he talks about how in addiction recovery groups, he mentioned specifically an eating addiction recovery group, that they label those thoughts. They call it Ted, and that the eternal destroyer is what Ted stands for. Right. And so as people who are suffering with addiction are having these thoughts of like, oh, I'm gonna have it's it's uh summertime, it's time for me to be in a bathing suit. I need to starve myself or whatever those actions are that are destructive. Yeah, to for them, this is not people of our faith. They go, Oh, there's Ted, always trying to destroy me. It's labeling, it's recognizing, and in so that discerning power comes to us. And in in this case, we are able to do that more easily because we are able to feel what love looks like when we are in that work of temple work. And so as we draw, I think those aren't like separately listed out. I think it's almost a process. Your families draw closer to the Lord, that's step one. Unseen angels watch over your loved ones. That's step two. So then when satanic forces tempt them, the veil will be thinned and great spiritual experiences will distill upon the this people. They will be able to tell the difference and tell others about the difference. Yeah. So yes, I think that's pretty brilliant from a guy that lived a long time ago.

SPEAKER_00 48:21

Okay, so

When Faithful Parents Still Fear For Kids

SPEAKER_00 48:22

here's my question. What if you do this? You go to the temple regularly and you still have a kid that chooses wrong. Yeah, I love that. Because I I love this quote. This is one of the main I mean, when I first that quote, I said, if this quote is there, I'm going to the temple every week. I'm gonna go as often as I can because I want my kids to be protected. But I guess for anybody listening, and for all of us, there's people that go to the temple regularly that are very faithful. They worship in the temple. They don't just rush in and rush out, and they have children that have chosen to not follow the path of the Church of Jesus Christ, Latter Saints. Those kids may be great, they may have successful careers, uh, you know, wonderful, but they may have left the church or not followed. So how do we reconcile that? How do we say, hey, we've got this great quote by Elder Vaughn J. Featherstone, and I've gone to the temple all the time, but it didn't work.

SPEAKER_03 49:12

Yeah, I I think that's very transactional, and that's exactly how I've operated most of my life. It's it's really it's really interesting because what we learn as we have people that we love who make choices that we don't agree with or who are suffering needlessly or intentionally pushing away, is that we what we're taught in the temple is this eternal perspective. Yeah. As as Dennis Deaton once told me privately, he said, if you were Heavenly Father and you had infinite power and infinite time, how many of your children would you actually lose? That's a good point. Everything is happening for a reason. One of the biggest things I've struggled with, Curtis, in in my journey on this earth, is that um as someone who's organically like just kind of a people pleaser and obedient. I'm a rule follower, is a better way to say that. Like I've just always wanted to do these things for various reasons. Some of them are righteous, some of them are just because that's who I am. Um so when I when I had children who wanted to do things their own way, it became very much this idea of like, well, what am I doing wrong? What is what what am I it was very much about every parent's reaction. Me being a savior.

SPEAKER_01 50:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:16

And recognizing that, like, well, and then and listen, Curtis, there's so many things I've done wrong. Like there's it was easy, it wasn't a hard argument for me to put against myself. But what I've come to realize is this thing that you said earlier about it's only through the savior and his his mercy and his merits is that it applies to my children in a way that is working for their advantage.

SPEAKER_01 50:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:36

And so in my journey of of letting that go, I've been able to show up less judgmentally. I've been able to be more accepting, recognizing that this cake isn't fully baked.

SPEAKER_04 50:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:48

That the Lord's gonna fully bake these us when we're ready. And some of our children have to go through these experiences. I really believe that. I think some of them have to make these choices, but it's all gonna work out in the end. And because of the connecting, bonding rivers of healing through the temple, um, Ezekiel, this is one of my favorite stories, answering that question. You know, he has this vision of this temple with the healing waters that go two directions. That healing stems from the temple, both directions. So to be clear, when we go to the temple, we aren't the ones who are setting those healing river waters. But when we go to the temple, we do free up angels, we do support them. So even if they are seemingly getting going further and further away from the gospel, you have no idea the way they're being blessed.

SPEAKER_01 51:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 51:35

I know firsthand that the Lord is blessing their lives, that they are they are going through lessons that they have to learn, and we're going through lessons we have to learn. When things aren't going the way they're supposed to, that's exactly how they're supposed to go when we're doing the best that we can.

SPEAKER_01 51:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:52

No matter how horrible, no matter how tragic. It's the savior that turns those tragedies into triumphs. But it does happen in the Lord's time, and that's where this value of patience comes in. Totally. And where do we learn about patience from the savior? And where do we learn about the savior from the temple? So it's in that perspective, that perspective that we get glimpses of, not usually at the temple, but we can. But especially when we come down from the mountain, that we get that glimpse that gives us sometimes the energy just to fight one more day. And as my mother-in-law once told me once in our situation, all you need is another miracle. That's awesome. So when you learn to rely upon the Lord for that, sometimes that miracle looks like the child getting out of bed. Yeah right?

SPEAKER_01 52:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:31

Um, so don't take for granted those small miracles just because everyone else, uh everyone else's kids seem to be, you know, hyper-spiritual giants that are crushing life. Like that's just never the case. Everyone's everyone's got their Gethsemane.

SPEAKER_00 52:43

Who am I to judge another one? I, you know, in the quiet heart is hidden sorrow that the eye can't see. I mean, we all have problems, we all have issues, we have struggles. Um, I love what you said. Because you it it's an eternal perspective. And and I also think that God will never take away our agency.

SPEAKER_04 53:00

No.

SPEAKER_00 53:01

You know, our attending the temple, yes, our kids are gonna be blessed, unseen angels are gonna watch over them. Peep, you know, they're gonna try to keep Satan away from them. But God will never take our kids' agencies away. He He will He will bless them, they'll get receive blessings and protections in their lives, but at the end of the day, they are going to be able to make decisions because that's part of God's plan and part of what you said. They're gonna make decisions, learn their own things, and at the end of the day, they're all gonna have a chance to accept Jesus Christ, repent, and be forgiven. You know, and so so I I love that quote. It's my favorite quote. But I also think we have to recognize that sometimes, like you said, our kids are gonna exercise their agency, and it's not Will's fault, it's not Kurt's fault, it's not the other parents' fault. It's just we're in a fallen world where our kids have agency, and we do everything we can to protect them. But sometimes even that, they still have their agency.

SPEAKER_03 53:55

Yes, and I think and that's the biggest thing I would say to anyone who's listening right now who's who's getting something out of this part of the conversation, is that we have to, if we really believe what we believe, we have to know it's gonna be okay. Yeah, like it really is it's for them, it's gonna be okay. It's gonna be okay. And again, we aren't invoking that through our effort because we go to the temple. It's in going to the temple that we receive the gift, not just for us, but for them. In the end, in the end, when this life is over, and I mean not just more this mortality, but this next stage where we're all there, uh very few will ever be lost. And and and believe me, with if they're your kids, they're not gonna be lost. It's gonna be okay. It's gonna be hard, yeah, but that's what we signed up for. Yeah, we signed up for this. It's uh, but in the end, it's all gonna be worth it. We'll look back and say how great thou art.

SPEAKER_01 54:44

I love it. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 54:45

Yeah, thank you. Well, I appreciate that question, Curtis. Any other quotes come to mind for you or are you feeling complete?

SPEAKER_00 54:51

We could spend hours.

SPEAKER_03 54:52

Listen, I I I felt I felt complete as well. I really want to thank you, Curtis. This episode has been so great. I really um have learned a lot today about effort, you know, um grace. Yes, what how those things go together, how the temple comes in and overlays across all these elements, when things go right, when things go wrong.

SPEAKER_00 55:12

Right.

SPEAKER_03 55:13

And um, yeah, I just can't thank you enough. I'd like to finish with some rapid fire questions for you.

Rapid Fire Questions And Closing Testimony

SPEAKER_03 55:18

Okay. I'll do my best. Yeah, rapid fire. So, first question. When it comes to the let's do something really easy. What's your favorite temple?

SPEAKER_00 55:27

My favorite temple is probably Gilbert Temple. I mean, Gilbert, Arizona Temple. I love it. It's my home temple, it's a minute and a half from my house. I love it with all my heart. I mean, I should say Seattle because that's where I received my endowment, but I mean, I just I love the Gilbert Temple. And every other temple I go to, I'm comparing it to the Gilbert Temple. So I love that. I love that. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 55:46

All right, uh, who's your favorite child? Just kidding. Let's do uh that's awesome. No, but here's what I do want to ask. You have six grandchildren.

SPEAKER_01 55:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 55:53

How is having grandchildren influenced your perspective that the temple if has it changed it at all? It's okay if it hasn't. But as your family expands, I I I'm curious, does that have any impact on uh how you have viewed temple worship or uh you know the things that we learn about temple and family history?

SPEAKER_00 56:09

Well, I think it's even as you have grand have you had kids, you always want to be an example to your kids, but the same thing applies to grandchildren. And you want to s them to see you valuing the temple, valuing the gospel of Jesus Christ. Uh and being, I mean, we live in an area where we can take our kids to the grand or take our kids or our grandkids to a temple. We can show them the temple, but it's also brings an eternal perspective when you think of the temple. The temple is eternal. It is that we receive blessings in the temple that are not just blessing us on this earth, but that we will use and receive throughout eternity. And those blessings are coming through me, yeah, my children, down to my grandchildren. And so it's amazing how I mean we talk about the patriarchal order. When we are sealed in the temple, we enter into the patriarchal order, husband and wife, patriarchal order of the priesthood. And that patriarchal order binds our family. And so I see my grandchildren as part of this massive family of Jesus, and it's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 57:14

I love that answer. Um, who the general authority that has had a significant impact on how you see the temple?

SPEAKER_00 57:21

Uh I would say Elder Bednar. We quoted him more than anyone said. I am and I have a lot of him in here, uh, just because I think the the most influential quote from him is there's a difference between people who rush into the temple and those who worship in the temple. That quote is really what got me thinking, what do I do? Am I rushing in, rushing out, or am I worshiping? So I would think uh I would say his quotes. But now, with that in mind, I President Nelson, in the six or eight years as he was a prophet, there are probably there are more quotes in here by President Nelson than by anybody else. I mean, when he says I promise and just lays out these litany of blessings that come from our temple worship. So I'd I'd have to say that yes, Elder Benner has a big influence, but President Nelson probably, since he became the prophet, has a massive influence because of the quotes he has that influence me and that I can use to help influence others.

SPEAKER_03 58:12

You know, I never share my answer to your question, but I really think it's President Nelson for me too. He is amazing. He was one of those prophets where I just knew in the moment, like, oh, this is special, this is different. And I didn't know much about him when he was called, to be honest. I was like neither. I was like, oh, the apostle, I know the basic level things, and now um he's changed my life forever. I all right, so where's somewhere in the world that you'd like to go that you haven't been?

SPEAKER_00 58:35

I want to go uh to somewhere in the South Pacific, Vanuatu. Okay, something like that, you know, New Zealand, Australia. I'd love to do that.

SPEAKER_03 58:45

Okay, awesome. Last question. Your grandkids are gonna see this, Curtis, one day. Uh yeah. What would you want them to know? What would you like to say to them?

SPEAKER_00 58:52

That they mean more to me than anything else in the world. And that family means more to me than anything else in the world, except Jesus Christ. But I, you know, when we talk about our families, they are so important to us. And you know, it's interesting when Elder Holland died, his daughter spoke at the funeral, and she said, My parents, their whole life was the gospel of Jesus Christ. Everything they did was the gospel of Jesus Christ. They lived it, they breathed it because they knew it was true. And she left a challenge to their posterity, to all her nieces and nephews, and she said, Don't ever let the work that they have done go unnoticed and unappreciated. Okay, so I'm not saying that about me, but I'm saying that that that I hope that my love for the gospel, I hope the love that I have for Jesus, that they will see that and that it will influence them to want to love Jesus. You know, that is what it's all about. I want my devotion to be so strong that my kids will see what Jesus has done for me and what it can do for them, and I want my grandkids to see that.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:10

Curtis, thank you so much for being on the show. This was phenomenal. Thank you for having me. And thank you all for tuning in. We're so grateful for the time that you spent with us on Temple Bound. Please remember, no matter where you are in life, no matter what you're going through, no matter what you're struggling with, Jesus loves you and that you always belong. Until next time. Temple Bound is brought to you by the Light on a Hill Foundation, a nonprofit aimed at building and strengthening families across the globe. Produced by Heather Humphreys, edited by Seth Patubo, with show notes and social media managed by Isabel Dizon and Kimberly Simbahan. Wardrobe by Anne Collar. These views and opinions expressed by the host and guests are on their own and do not necessarily reflect those of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Thank you for joining us today as we continue learning, growing, and striving to bind our lives closer to Savior. Until next time.