Scott and Lori on When the Lord Answers Your Prayer for a Companion

What do you do when a temple marriage ends in divorce and you wonder if God still has something beautiful ahead for you? Scott and Lori answer that question with their lives. Both in their mid-60s, both previously married in the temple, both carrying the kind of heartbreak that makes starting over feel impossible, they met on a dating app, and six months later they were sealed in the Draper Utah Temple.

In this episode of Temple Bound with Will Humphreys, Scott and Lori share the full journey: the pain of divorce after a temple sealing, the years of single life and faithful temple attendance that sustained them, the divine promptings that led Lori back to Salt Lake City, and the miraculous week in which Scott received confirmation through prayer, fasting, priesthood blessing, and temple worship that Lori was the companion he had prayed for.

If you are navigating divorce, dating again after heartbreak, or wondering whether God still has a plan for your eternal family, this episode is for you.

What You Will Learn in This Episode:

• How regular temple attendance became the spiritual foundation that carried Scott and Lori through years of painful marriages and difficult divorces
• Why Lori moved back to Salt Lake City on faith even though she did not want to leave Florida
• How Scott received divine confirmation about Lori within six days of meeting her through prayer, fasting, priesthood blessing, and a prompting from a trusted friend
• What Lori heard in the celestial room of the Orlando Temple that changed everything: "You are mine"
• The role the word "bridegroom" played in helping Lori anchor her identity to the Savior rather than to her marital status
• Why Scott calls Heavenly Father "a great matchmaker"
• Practical advice for couples in difficult marriages and individuals who are rebuilding after divorce
• How spending 20 minutes daily on your knees can transform your testimony and your sense of personal worth
• What President Holland said about bringing the temple out into the world and into your marriage

Scripture and Conference Talk References:

• President Russell M. Nelson on temple covenants as protection during life's storms
• President Jeffrey R. Holland on bringing the temple into your daily life
• Elder Neil L. Andersen, "Eternal Marriage Is an Eternal Joy," April 2026 General Conference
• The Family: A Proclamation to the World

SUBSCRIBE to Temple Bound for new episodes every week featuring real people whose lives have been transformed by temple covenants.

Disclaimer: Views and opinions expressed by the host and guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints.

Transcript

A Quick Favor Before We Start

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Before we start the episode, I have a small favor to ask. If Temple Bound has meant something to you, would you take a moment right now and follow the podcast and leave a comment on the app that you're listening to? When you follow and leave a comment, it helps the podcast show up for more people who are trying to learn, grow, and come closer to the teachings of the temple. It's free and it's simple, but it really makes a big difference. Thank you so much for being here.

Divorce And Feeling Like The Outsider

SPEAKER_01 0:30

If you're divorced right now or dating again when you swore you never would, or just feeling like the odd one out in church full of eternal families, I need you to hear this one. My guest today is Scott Jolly and Lori Finlay. They met on a dating app in their 60s after previously being married. And six months later they were sealed in the temple. Their story is proof that anchoring to the savior doesn't just carry you through the heartbreak, it opens doors to something you never thought was possible. All right. Well, um, Scott and Lori, thank you so much for being on Temple Bound today. Why don't you guys take a second and introduce yourselves and set the table a little bit of what would have us be talking here today?

SPEAKER_02 1:08

Okay. Would you let us start? I'll follow you. Okay. Um, we are in our 60s. I our mid-60s. I never, ever, ever would have imagined that at 62 I'd be going through divorce. I made a temple commitment at the age of 40 and um was shocked and heartbroken and um was incredibly grateful that I had made a regular um experience for myself, a foundational experience of going to the temple regularly to buoy myself up, as President Nelson says, you know, that there will be times in our lives when our world is shattered and we're rocked or whatever. This is paraphrasing, but like when we've got the protection and the covenants under us, we're supported and we can handle things, right?

Dating Apps In Your Sixties

SPEAKER_02 2:00

And um so I'm grateful at the time I was living down in Tampa, Florida, and this was four years ago, down in Tampa, and um we were going, it could take two to three hours to go to the Orlando Temple. And um, but I still we still made it there at least once a month, or anywhere I flew was praying there'd be a temple so I could go to a temple. And I'm grateful that it was uh a bedrock and sustain sustaining me in my life. And um I, you know, within eight months or so, I decided, okay, I'll put my toe in the digital dating world. That's a wild ride in your 60s, I'm just saying. And um, and I was on that wild roller coaster for what, 18 months, finally decided that, you know, through a lot of promptings, prayer and prompting, even though I want to spend my life on the ocean to move back to Salt Lake City, be closer to family and longtime friends. And I was back for eight weeks when I met Scott. And he had been on the apps for one day.

SPEAKER_01 3:04

Scott, you found Lori on the apps on their first day.

SPEAKER_00 3:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

So what was that nice that you didn't have to spend years kind of looking? You just on the first day you found Lori.

SPEAKER_00 3:16

Yeah, that was really, really interesting. Um that that whole experience. Um, I I had some real doubts and fear about remarrying. I I was you know mid-60s. Um, I would I didn't want to be alone. Um, so I had some real concerns about that and some real fear about uh I wanted to marry, find someone that I'd really be happy with that enjoyed liked being with me, uh a help meet, a companion, my best friend. And so I was really concerned about that. And I received some priesthood blessings. And uh yeah, the the day after my divorce was final, I was on the apps and um Lori reached out and we started talking, and we spent lots and lots of time together almost every day, unless one of us was out of town and we ended up getting married um within six months of meeting.

SPEAKER_01 4:13

That's a powerful, powerful story because it was your previous marriage also a temple marriage.

SPEAKER_00 4:19

Um my first one was like my second one was not. We we were working that direction, I thought, and and my wife filed for divorce and said, you know, this isn't working for me. And so I was I I was hurt and uh shocked some, and um but and we in retrospect, it it was um we would never be together had that not happened.

SPEAKER_01 4:49

Um interesting, interesting thinking backwards how that connects. And I think one thing that's interesting as well, if I can just observe, is that when we're going through these trials, the adversary really loves to make it feel like we are different than everybody else. Like everyone else lives this exact life. And it's the one thing that's true with every guest the challenge that they face makes them feel, or at least the adversary tries to make them feel like there's something wrong with them or like uh God doesn't love them. Whatever the story is, the lie, the lies can take a lot of different shapes because we all have these expectations of what we want. And when we're married in the temple, I think there's this like added measure of expectation that, like, well, we're in the temple, so it's gonna be it's gonna be fine.

unknown 5:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

But sometimes it doesn't work.

SPEAKER_00 5:39

Yeah. And the adversary is especially good at sowing doubt and fear. And and we, you know, I bought I bought into that. I was very concerned about that. We we we fear, we have a tendency, I have a tendency of fearing the unknown. I don't know what this is that what this is gonna look like down the road. Um, so I think in looking back, we all have our wilderness experiences. And um hopefully, as we are faithful, as we turn to our savior and trust and uh exercise and learn patience, miracles can happen in our lives. We don't see that until down the road

Revelation Tools That Brought Peace

SPEAKER_00 6:20

ways, but miracles happen.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

Well, I would love to ask you guys what were some of the miracles that you guys experienced in that road to finding each other? Because yours is a love story. And I would I would argue that every one of our lives is a love story. Yeah, and yours is such a beautiful example of how anchoring your faith in in the hope of the savior and through temple service and worship has created this miracle. Can you guys do you feel comfortable sharing any particular moments that maybe stuck out to you in this this path?

SPEAKER_02 6:51

Yeah, I would love you to share a little bit, just a teeny bit of the miracle within six days, right? Um, but I can go, I can go first if you want.

SPEAKER_00 7:01

Oh, I'll share that. Okay, and then I'll share it. Um I was going through a very contentious divorce. I was struggling emotionally. I was wondering what the future would look like. I didn't want to be alone. Um in December of 2024, um the the state leaders came to my ward and said, you know, they've opened, they've dedicated the Taylor's Middle Temple, and the Draper Temple has lost 200 volunteers. And if you have any interest, we'd love to have you talk to your bishop. And I went to my bishop and I said, I, you know, have time, I'd like to do this. He recommended me. They called me, I was set apart in December. I met Lori within a month. My divorce was finalized within a month, and it was I didn't know how long the divorce was going to go on.

SPEAKER_01 7:55

I I they go on a long time from I've witnessed on the sidelines. Like it seems like these things can go on for years.

SPEAKER_00 8:02

And if you're in the middle of it, it just seems like it's endless. Uh, anyone that's gone through that. Uh, unless you know it it's it's not contentious and it's and it's uh really easy to resolve. Mine wasn't. And anyway, um, so I start working in the temple, serving the temple, and a month later I meet I meet Lori online, and I'm thinking this is a lovely person. We talked on the phone, we texted, you know, you do the things, and um I uh we had a now Lori can correct me, but but this is the real accurate story. So I just I just want to preface what I say. Um I we met online, I invited myself to her place to have dinner. We had a date set up for Monday night, but I I I I called and said, What do you think about getting together and watching uh an episode of The Chosen? And so I came to her house for dinner on Sunday, and it was a lovely evening. We really enjoyed, I enjoyed being with her, and I was interested in developing the relationship more and wanted to see her again. And she said, you know, Monday's not gonna work, but how about Tuesday? And and uh we saw each other regularly, like almost every day after that. So a few days later, a dear friend of mine, a childhood friend of mine, calls me. We go to lunch periodically. He said, Scott, I need to have lunch with you on Thursday. He never he's never said that. I've known him for, I don't know, 50 years, longer. And I said, Okay, let's have lunch. And we meet for lunch, and he says, I told him about meeting Lori, and and I thought this was just, you know, I I've been on some other dates. Um, and uh he said, Scott, I was praying this morning, and here's some revelation that I received. And he read it to me, and he said, This is not like some of the this is not like other relationships. You need to pay attention to this relationship. He said, This isn't my revelation for you, this is for you to go check this out. Go get your own answers, but this isn't this is this is a unique relationship. So I said, Okay, um I'll I hear you, I'll do that. So I I spent a lot of time on my knees, I went to the temple on Saturday, I uh sought a priesthood blessing. I fasted Sunday, I asked for a priesthood blessing, um and and felt that this really was a unique relationship.

SPEAKER_01 10:50

How? Like what shifted? I have to jump in. So you go through like, first of all, that was a nice way of overviewing for anyone who's looking for answers right now. You know, you consulted with someone who's who, you know, in all cases of purposes, is someone you respect and love. So you consulted with someone you love, you prayed, you went to the temple, you fasted, and you got a priesthood blessing. I think those five things are powerful tools in in our experience on earth to receive revelation. And everyone's gonna receive different revelation differently. But what happened? You said, Yep, you I did those things and you just you realized it was a special relationship. Was it something that just became clear to you? Did you have a feeling? Because everyone, everyone gets that revelation differently, Scott. What was that like for you?

SPEAKER_00 11:36

I felt really comfortable about um about Lori and our relationship. I mean, I I didn't know her very well. We had met a few times. We had spent some hours together, but I didn't really know her very well. And I really trusted that Heavenly Father knew her a lot, clearly, well, way more than I know her. And so I asked, is this something that is this a relationship I need to pursue? Is this someone that you've set aside for me and that I I could help be, help her to be happy in a relationship? And the answers I got were all affirmative, all positive. Uh the priesthood blessing I received, I recorded it. And and it it wasn't I'll have to go back and look at it again, but it it was you've we've known each other a lot longer than a week. And Lori can share a little bit. I I shared that with her after I'd known her just a few a couple of few weeks. And she's like, Yeah, yeah, whatever it is, you know, like we've known each other since the premortal existence. But that was the answer to me. And I didn't tell her like the next day. I I she she said her comment was several weeks later, it's say within a couple of weeks, it seems so comfortable. And I said, That's because I think we've known each other a lot longer than a couple of weeks.

SPEAKER_01 13:10

Um there's a feeling of comfort. There was this feeling of, I mean, the way the words you keep saying is I felt comfortable. I mean, there's a comfort, uh, a familiarity. There were you didn't see an angel. The angel didn't show up and say, Scott, Lori's the one. You went through the process, and in there you found you found this like ease, this comfort, maybe peace. I don't know what words you to to describe, but that was how you knew the Lord was was telling you that Lori had been you and Lori were meant to be.

SPEAKER_00 13:42

I think that's accurate. And and in all of those things that I did, the answer was very consistent. Yes, this is something you should pursue. Yes, this is a relationship that um my heavenly father assisted in bringing us together. Um, my my friend, my dear friend, I love him. He he actually uh did a marriage ceremony, an uh exchange of vow ceremony um for those that were not able to attend the temple afterwards, but um he he uh I he he was really clear in saying, Scott, it's it's unusual, don't this is not a good pattern. You know, I don't get revelation for you. That's not the way things work. But he said he said, Scott, go out, you do the work, you spend the time on your knees. If you feel like fasting, and I asked him, you know, would you come and give me a priesthood blessing? He fasted that Sunday. He came over, you know. I'm single and I've been separated for a long time. I'm kind of I'm not kind of I'm miserable. Yes, I'm not, I'm hurting a lot still. And here within a week, I I have prayed for months and months and years and years and years for a companion that is healthy, that is happy. I wanted a relationship that was happy. Yes, I wanted a relationship uh with someone who was loving. And you would go to the temple with you. Yeah, that wasn't part of my prayer, but yes. Um I will share that my patriarchal blessing does encourage me and counsel me to find someone of like faith, someone that believes the way I believe. And Lori is that we love the Church of Jesus Christ, we love the doctrine, it resonates with us. We aren't perfect, but we're working on being better. Um so it's it's been and so back to my comment, Heavenly Father answered that prayer in a miraculous way for me. I didn't know when that would be answered. I didn't know how patient I would need to be. Uh, and and all of a sudden, it was like it was um I've told Lori and other people, God is a great matchmaker. He really is. But sh you know, we dated for six months. We didn't date that long before we decided to get married, but where's he still knows Lori way better than I do? So when you know, just continuing this progression, I will often say, Heavenly Father, help me be understanding, help me understand where Lori's coming from. We won't agree on everything. I mean, you it's it's a challenge, it's it's work to be married.

SPEAKER_01 16:54

Yeah, I think it's a mistake to think that now that you've found each other, like we all do this, right? Like when we are lucky enough to find the one, that we think it's done. When we find the one, it's far from done. We have so much more to develop and grow to it together. But the difference is there's a foundation that I can see in both of your cases because of your previous marriages, that you can that if if there is a blessing of those things, is that you have a contrast for clarity of what you have today. So before I ask Glory about her miracles or experiences, Scott, what does it feel like to have had your blessings answered at last? Wonderful. Or yeah, or your your questions answered at last, the things that you were wanting.

SPEAKER_00 17:39

Yeah, wonderful. I I I was praying for the right things. I think I was inspired to ask for those things. And Heavenly Father, I witness that He hears and answers our prayers. He is there, He is involved in the details of our lives, and for something that's as important as our marriage, the most important decision that we ever make, um, if we're careful, if we really listen to Him, I will I will admit that in my life, I like to do things my way. And that's not always the way the Heavenly Father and the Savior want things done. Yeah. That's something that we need to learn in this life is to trust, to be patient, to rely on them, to pray, to do our work, to do our part, seek answers. And um, my witness is that they only follow answer those prayers. It may not be when I want, it may not be exactly, but uh in this case, I believe I was inspired to ask specifically for those things, and he answered that prayer, and really quickly after I was divorced.

SPEAKER_01 19:04

Yeah, it's interesting that whole journey. Lori, what was your side of it like? Like what were some of the things that you struggled with and overcame? And what were those, what was that journey like for

Infertility Divorce And Starting Over

SPEAKER_01 19:13

you?

SPEAKER_02 19:13

Well, um in a nutshell, I was unable to have my own children. Uh, I mean, I was married in my mid-20s. By 30, divorced, he broke every single covenant and chose to live a different lifestyle with his male partner. And I was like, this isn't very conducive to an eternal marriage. So I was single all of my 30s, which was a real a real struggle. And I had infertility. There was that gnawing heartbreak that women go through, like significant heartbreak, and praying that I would be married and be able to have children. Um, finally, I mean, all my siblings and sister-in-laws, they're all at have at least five, right? And um, and I had yearned for that. Um, at the age of 40, I decided that I would try the whole digital dating thing. This was in 2000 or 1999. And people were like, they had the internet then? We did. And um, and I met a man in Atlanta, and um, I took the midnight train, and he was a widower with three teenagers that had been through a lot, you know, a lot. And um, I didn't realize the level of dysfunction and things in the family, and yet it was very similar. When you talk about comfortable and this feels similar, well, it was very similar to my dysfunctional childhood. And I walked into that scenario. Um, so it was it was a hard marriage, but I kept learning and growing. And I mean, we had tremendous wonderful, tremendous things, and we were able to do a lot together to build the kingdom, like wonderful, wonderful things. And um I was heartbroken. Anyway, we moved to plant, we moved to Tampa, was down in Tampa for retirement, loved it, and you know, um was doing everything I could to build family with these stepkids and grandkids. Being a grandmother was the joy of my life, 13 years, right, with these grandkids and just lit me up. And overnight it was I mean, just no contact, gone, right, and devastating. And I remember thinking, like I had literally had the thought, I I am like a blip on the genealogy charts again, just dangling like a dangling participle, just out there.

Temple Moments That Rebuild Identity

SPEAKER_01 21:36

That must have been very hard. It's very hard, right?

SPEAKER_02 21:39

And I remember going to the Orlando Temple, and at the end of my um session, and you know, an hour or so in the celestial room, just praying and asking, yeah, is there anything else you want me to know today? And the answer was clear as can be quote, yes. You are mine, unquote. It was like, oh, thank you, right? And again, it was a wild ride these 18 months. I remember going to the temple with my niece or coming to Salt Lake and the Draco Temple. We were going to do, you know, ceilings together. And there I am, like before we even go in, and I just lose it. Like, just I can't do this. It's too raw. It's too painful. So we did initiatories. And um there's a part for your your members that have your listeners that have not been through the temple, but they mentioned, they mentioned the husbands, right? The word husband. Yes. And I've just gone through divorce, and um immediately, like nanoseconds, the spirit blessed me with the word bridegroom. Like the minute the word husband came out of her mouth, bridegroom, bridegroom came into my mind. And I just remember, like, oh, that's who I'm sealed to, right? Like that is who my rock is right there. It is my savior. And so I had those repeated kind of strengthening um experiences, right? And um I didn't want to move back to Salt Lake. I don't like cold weather, but I decided to come. Like I literally had a had a conversation with God, a prayer. Like as I'm walking along the beach, right? My my regular night in prayers. Do you want me to go back to Salt Lake? I'm open. Like you lead me, guide me, walk beside me, let me know what you what you want me to do. And five days later, I had a friend from Florida or from Utah say, Come spend the summer with me. I've got a huge home here all by myself. She was a widower, come stay with me. It was like, uh, okay. And so I came and spent four four months. In the first week, I knew being with family, like I need to move back. And, you know, I'd been dating here and there, and um, but I met Scott in eight weeks after I moved back. And and I was still dating. I mean, I thought, oh, I'm gonna finally be in Salt Lake and we'll be able to really date, right? I'd been to one single activity in Salt Lake when I met Scott. And um, you know, I was still talking to other men for about five weeks and finally, you know, I just kept praying and praying, allowing the spirit to comfort me with a lot more with peace to just trust and move forward here. And um it was pretty amazing.

SPEAKER_01 24:39

You seem very happy, Lori. I know you are. What what's it like to have those prayers answered at last for you?

SPEAKER_02 24:48

Um absolutely overwhelming, absolutely overwhelming gratitude knowing that um Heavenly Father is so incredibly aware of us and our individual personal journeys. And it may take longer than we ever anticipate, um, and we may have to have a lot of patience and trust. But I've got, you know, huge art on my wall. Be still and know that I am God, right? Like the tumultuous travels that we go through in life. And again, President Nelson in his 21 talk, you know, maybe it was his 2001, but the bottom line is, you know, clearly said when you've got the foundation of the temple and our ordinances to sustain us and support us, all those tumultuous things in our lives can be um supported and we can be supported. Um, so it feels like an incredible grass, incredible miracle. Um, it's so much peace, so much joy, so much happiness. But like the peace and joy and happiness we have every single moment together is mind-blowing. I remember listening to podcasts from certain people, I won't name them, but people that I revere, strong LDS couples, and listening to our brethren from the pulpit talk about marriage and how sweet and the joy and the peace and the safety in the haven, and just craving that. Decades craving that. And I'm like, wow, this is what you're living. Like, this is how beautiful marriage can be.

SPEAKER_01 26:29

And Keith and Joy and you're mentioning words, I'm hoping people who are listening who are either recently divorced or struggling into marriage, that just I just want to like ground that in as hey, this is really possible, even if you didn't find it the first time.

SPEAKER_02 26:44

You didn't, even if you didn't find it the first time. You're like, whoa, wait. I I I I was never thinking of divorce. I made an eternal commitment. Like, whoa, you know, there's that, oh well, we all have free agency. Free agency happens, right? Like, wow. Um, and we have to let God intervene in our lives and and consecrate all of it um to our good. And the the things I've learned, the trusts that I have um learned be even more solidified because of this journey um has been profound. So it's really so sweet and so tender.

When A Temple Marriage Ends

SPEAKER_01 27:26

There's a there's a piece as both of you guys are talking. It does feel like you've known each other for decades, for one. And there's this comfort level that I even feel. I wonder, you know, just kind of looking at this from this perspective of people who go through divorces after a temple marriage, do you think that there's a different process that has gone through versus, I guess you wouldn't not necessarily, but like, is do you feel like there's something different about that, having gone through the temple first? Or is divorce divorce?

SPEAKER_02 27:54

I I personally think, um, and I'll have you address this, but I think um, you know, when you make that temple covenant and and you put you make I I made that commitment. I was really serious about that. I was willing to do anything and everything. And so when they change their mind, I'm like, uh, I'm gonna I'm not gonna spend the rest of my life with you. You're kind of like what part of Temple Covenant? Right? Um, so I think it is, I would say, more of a shock, more of uh more devastating. There's those eternal, eternal expectations, perhaps.

SPEAKER_01 28:38

Right? Yeah. Scott, I'm wondering what you think too about that. Because like I have friends who aren't who aren't members of the church who I literally they're telling me about some challenges, and like, well, if worse gets to worse, we can always divorce. And I'm sure you can say that with a temple marriage just because you can say anything, but I don't like to you to your point to validate you, Lori. I think that when you're marrying in the temple, there's this idea that it it's it's gonna work out and it's gonna be fine. And because we're involving Jesus in it. Um, Scott, what are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_00 29:05

I agree with that. I think we have other, we have higher expectations, or we should have higher expectations. I mean, I think this sticks in the church uh are that temple marriages um are dissolved less frequently than civil marriages, and um hopefully because we're uh significantly more committed to uh to making uh celestial marriage. We we make covenants. I mean, we go to the temple and we're sealed, and and it to your point before, that that's just the beginning. That's just the beginning of a lot of work and such a lot of heartache at times and struggles and challenges. And it in our situation, we don't have young children, we are have been sick, we've had successful careers, our financial situation. You know, we don't we don't have the things in our lives that that disrupt typical younger uh couples in marriage. We don't have some of those challenges. We have other challenges. Um not to say that we don't have challenges, but it's different. Uh we, you know, the the top three or four reasons for other marriages to fail, we're not facing those those challenges, some of them.

SPEAKER_02 30:26

And I didn't have children, right? And I mean, for me, it was like I didn't need to get married financially, but I knew there was nothing more than I wanted than to have a family, like to be family. You know, it was thinking celestial, it was like that's why I moved back to Salt Lake City, was because, you know, I didn't trust myself. It felt too unsafe for me to start dating, you know, and meet some tall, handsome sailor I like to sail, you know, in temple that that's not a member of the covenant, right? That does not want to be sealed in the temple. It was like that that's too dangerous. I I need to think celestial. If I'm thinking celestial and and I want to progress and grow, in fact, um a member of the Draper Temple presidency sealed us. And um he said, you know, if you want to go, um, if you want to go fast, you can go alone. But if you want to go farther, you need to go together. Yes. It's like if we want to progress eternally, we need to be in an eternal relationship, a covenant relationship together. And that's what we were both seeking. And um we're both very grateful.

SPEAKER_01 31:42

You know, I wonder, because I have a dear friend of mine who uh left the church because he got married in the temple and it didn't work out, and he was AP on his mission, and she was, you know, the idyllic, you know, member of the church if there is such a thing, which by the way, to me, that's always the beginning of the fall, is that we think there's an idol, how someone should look, you know. But when when he left, I was going on a walk with him one day in California, and he said to me, he goes, Hey, well, uh, I left because I I did what I was supposed to do. I did it. I made the covenants, I did the thing. What would you guys say to someone who's who's feeling a little discouraged in that way? Maybe they're not like, I'm done with this, but they're in question, they're struggling. Maybe right now they're divorced or getting divorced and they're feeling like, hey, I did the thing I'm supposed to do. You know, what's wrong with me? Or whatever that is that they they, whatever the adversary's approach is using for them, what would you guys say to someone right now, knowing where you what you've overcome?

Keep Going Back For Healing

SPEAKER_02 32:43

I love that question. And um, I certainly have had plenty of friends in the exact same situation who have struggled and or left the church because of that. And for me, it was like there is no one that knows me better, as Scott mentioned, right? No one that has um greater interest in my peace and my eternal happiness than my heavenly father and my savior. Like if I am this close to my heavenly father and my savior and the Holy Spirit, then they will support me through anything. And if and if I'm struggling, for me, the best place for me to get uh answers and feel the peace and the love and the bond and their healing arms around me is in the temple. And and I would say, if you don't feel it yet, keep going. You will get to a place where you crave to be there. Because I I didn't feel that for years, and I didn't understand the endowment or even understand my covenants very uh well enough. You know, we've had significant changes to our temple ceremonies to help everyone understand really about the depth and and how all of this is tied to our savior, how it all points us back to our savior. And um, and I I didn't get it for years. It's been line upon line for me. Um, but if it's someone younger and they're in that place, I would say just keep going. Keep going and make that commitment at least once a month. If you go once a week, I promise that that um that spirit and that support and that love, that inner love for yourself from them, that connection will grow much, much, much quicker.

SPEAKER_01 34:45

Amazing. So you're I love that message, Lori, because what I heard you say was don't give up. Don't give up on Jesus just because what your expectation was didn't work out around this idea of a temple marriage. You know, I think we oftentimes, again, we make the mistake of thinking of life as like a set of check boxes. And if it doesn't work, then there's something broken in me or broken in him above. Or but the truth of the matter is that it's in those breaks from expectation that humility is filled and our ability to connect with our savior lives. The there's one commonality, there's many commonalities actually with any of my guests on the show. And one of the most profound, comforting thoughts that I have with each amazing person who's on the show is that it's in the disappointments of life that we find our savior the most if we choose to keep trying.

SPEAKER_02 35:40

Yes, absolutely. I I didn't understand the atonement, really, as a as a young woman. I didn't understand. I mean, I knew that I was supposed to repent and the savior atoned for my sins. I did not get that he atoned for my heartbreak and for his sins, right? When I found out about my first husband's affair, right? It was just devastated. Like we were still in the temple, like, what? Um, and and it was repeatedly going back and getting anchored. And look, the family proclamation is still a divine proclamation from God. It is still the divine um gift of eternal families, whether mine looks like that right now or not, and having faith and trust that I will, and you know, I did have a calming feeling and a knowing as I was going through the my divorce that I would be remarried. I know I long, but just hang on there. You will be remarried someday. And, you know, and I I hang on knowing that I will have the I will have the opportunity to bear children, you know, in in the eternities. If the two of us live worthy of our covenants and um, you know, that those are eternal possibilities. And um, we were just craving to be sealed in the temple. We didn't get our our temple clearance until one week before the wedding day. Oh my goodness. We had more people praying. We were praying and fasting and you know, hoping that everything fell into place and and it was a miracle. And so there was nothing more beautiful and rewarding for us than those covenants. And that's why we go participate. We we participated in regularly before we got married in the ceiling proxy, you know, work for couples to really get and understand those commitments and covenants we were making, and we continue to go back to ceilings and um couple ceilings, family ceilings, and get those words and promises in our bones and in our brain that we can reflect upon them. In fact, um I uh in preparation for this read a quote from um from President Holland. Um he and Sister Holland were down in the St. George Temple for the rededication, right? Once the temple was rededicated. And he said, you know, we need to bring the temple out of the temple. Like remember, and you know, I'm paraphrasing, but we need to, if we would bring the temple out into the world and into our lives, we would change the world. And so I have been amazed. We will always talk in the temple after a session of anything we do. What have we learned and discussions and and um, but to hear my beloved Scott rehearsing audibly out loud that I can hear, right? Those promises that we've made to each other. Like we're bringing it out, and that is the focus of our marriage, and it has created such a beautiful, safe space, you know, where we are anchored together in our temple covenant.

SPEAKER_01 39:08

It's it's amazing to me to think about how your journey has produced this refinement of each other to the point where we're now when you found each other, there was so much, it was so fast. I mean, you know, slow is fast and fast is slow, depending on how you look at it. But when you guys finally were in that position, it was just so clear to both of you. And the love and the connection and the being worth it all just came together after years of not knowing and suffering and questioning.

Marriage As A Spiritual Crucible

SPEAKER_01 39:39

And it reminds me, there's a quote, there's a quote I'd like to read from the April 26th general conference from President Anderson who talked about uh marriage. That it's called Eternal Marriage is an eternal joy. Yes. And in it, he it's a great talk. And in it, he has this quote about refining our nature about marriage. And I would say for anyone listening, this is for if you're in a marriage and you're happy and you struggle like everyone else does in that space, or if you're not sure if this marriage is meant to last, or if you're divorced, that all of this is that process of refining. So let's just hear it from that perspective is that our our even greater hope, however, is a desire to refine our very nature to become more like our savior, allowing us one day to live with him. Within our sacred marriage, bound to God and to each other, we find ourselves in a crucible of spiritual development. And I love, as a pause, I'm gonna pause there. I love this idea that marriage is a crucible of spiritual development that implies work, that implies struggle, right? Um, where vital qualities, sacrifice, charity, patience, and being a peacemaker are the very character of Christ, can become a greater part of us. There's no greater journey of development than marriage and children, and marriage being the core of that. They've they've done studies to show that the greatest, if if a couple does have children, the greatest thing a father can do is actually just love the mother. There's like no greater lesson. Right. There's no parenting, so the which is which is to say that the marriage is where all of that comes together in such a powerful way. And so, yeah, I I wonder, um, you know, Scott, for you in particular, as as you've looked backwards, and now that you've landed in this space where you are incredibly blessed and lucky to have Lori, when you look backwards, what did you learn from those previous relationships that is serving you now as you're married now to Lori?

SPEAKER_00 41:47

That's a great question. I I want to go back to something that you just said though. Um it's if we take a step back and just look at marriage as a social construct and in context of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the scriptures talk about and our and our leaders talk about us having charity and developing love and developing patience and developing um these Christ-like attributes of being meek, of being humble. Um, where better to develop those Christ-like attributes than in a loving marriage relationship? Oh, and then have children, have little children, and then have teenagers, and then have grandchildren. Um if if we get out of this life without learning charity, without learning how to love some other people, um we've missed, we've missed the whole objective of this mortal experience. And and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and all those other things, you know. If if what a great place to learn these things is to say, okay, we're in a committed relationship. We're gonna do whatever we need to do to work through it, to resolve things, to compromise, to sacrifice. And it it's it's well, I mean, life in in many respects is is much easier as a single person, right? Because I I'm it's me. I can I can make decisions and yeah. But when you've got your help meet and an eternal companion, it adds a wonderful and and complex dimension to all of that. But what but I mean, the it just seems to me that the plan is really marriage is is ordained of God. Having children is ordained of God. These things will, if we'll hang on, if we'll exercise faith, if we'll be patient, something I need to learn is patience, but uh Um as we as we do those things, what better way to learn those things than in a marriage? Having children, having grandchildren? I mean, I think we'll look back in a thousand years and say, yeah, it was really tough, it was really challenging, and I I learned something. Hopefully, I learned to have charity. Hopefully, I learned how to become what my savior needs me to become and wants me to become and is inviting me to become. It's not at my office, it's not at school, it's not doing other things, it's in my family. It's with my children and with my wife, with my helmet. So I just think there's if we look at it from that angle, from that perspective, there's just great wisdom in the plan. And you know, you read the proclamation on the family, and yeah, I can see how that that makes a lot of sense. I mean, that really resonates with me in in all of these aspects of things we're supposed to do to become like our savior. Now, I think I forgot what your other question was.

SPEAKER_01 45:12

I don't even know if it matters. That was so good. I was just wondering, like, when you look backwards, because you know, during those those previous marriages where things didn't work, there's a lot of pain. And I think just from my perspective, I was wondering what did you learn in those experiences that is serving you now as you're married to Lori? Like, was and maybe you can't think of anything specific. And Lori, maybe you can't either. But I'm just curious, is does anything come to mind? Is there something in those previous experiences that came out of that that's now useful for you?

SPEAKER_00 45:40

How much time do you have? Yes. I I regularly remind us that we are today who we are because of the experiences of our lives. Now, I didn't plan on this circuitous route to where I am today. Nor did I. But I'm I'm the man I am, I'm more grateful. I think I'm more humble. I think I've learned some patience. Um I'm learning to be meek, I'm learning what that means. Um I've I've raised four wonderful, beautiful children. I have ten grandchildren. These are uh wonderful, exciting, miraculous blessings in in my life. And mine. Um so yeah, I I think challenges are uh a significant um opportunity to be stronger. Heavenly Father says, and the Savior says, you know, the people that I love, I'm going to chasten them. You're gonna go through a wilderness experience. We're gonna have, you know, the sacred grove experience. Those these are all patterns. We're gonna struggle in this life. This is not gonna be easy. This is this is not going to be pleasant all the time. Now, should we have peace in our lives? Yes. Um, I I would say one thing I've learned that has really, really helped me with my personal uh feelings of self-worth.

Twenty Minutes On Your Knees

SPEAKER_00 47:29

I mean, divorce is is devastating to our psyche and how we perceive our, especially if our spouse is saying, I don't want to be with you anymore. I don't want you to be.

SPEAKER_01 47:42

It's invalidating, you're saying it's a huge invalidation.

SPEAKER_00 47:46

So um, but one of the things that um a friend suggested to me, he said, Scott, if you want to rekindle some of your faith and and be closer to your savior, spend 20 minutes every single day on your knees. 20 minutes. Read scriptures for 20 minutes, read conference talks for 20 minutes, but every single day spend 20 minutes on your knees. Have your journal there. Um, and I have done that um semi-religiously since he asked me to do that. He gave me that challenge. And that I have had um profound, excuse me, profound spiritual and faith-promoting experiences. Um, I know that my Heavenly Father is aware of me. I I regularly feel his reassuring glosses, uh, reach out to me. I've I've still got challenges in my life, I've still got some things that create some anxiety. You know, life is complex and life is challenging at times. And I know if I do that, I'm grounded and I have peace, and and and it other things are gonna work out okay. In in a in a hundred years and two hundred years, it's not gonna matter, all this other stuff. It's just not it's just like so to have me grounded in that and have me realize I am a son of deity, and and I have uh a savior that loves me, that gave his life for me. Um and I can trust in him, I can trust in his timing, I can trust in his goodness, I can trust that when I pray for his healing influence in my life, that can be granted to me. He is he is really anxious to succor, to provide relief if I ask for that. But um if if I if I'm kind of coming up on 17 minutes and I'm thinking, okay, I've got some sometimes those last two and three minutes are priceless, are wonderful, and I'll sometimes go over the 20 minutes. And and as I as I do this, it brings a remarkable level of peace and comfort and uh a reassurance of their love into my life. So anyone that wants to try that, try that. That's um that it's uh a great thing to have that in in my life. That's changed my testimony and my faith more than probably anything I've done in the last 20 or 30 years.

SPEAKER_01 50:42

You're you're my second guest to suggest this. I had a guest by the name of Curtis Keller. His episode was actually came out, this is gonna go out differently, but at the time of this filming of this, his episode came out a week ago. And the feedback that people are having on this is profound because when we just make time and we don't, you know, we're not using it as a checkbox and we're spending time on our knees, it's amazing. For you, what I heard you say was there was so much benefit from what you learned in those previous experiences and relationships combined with the ultimate relationship, was which is between you and Helly Father. And Lori, I heard that with you as well. It's like when everything was starting to go go around in a different way for you. For both of you, it felt like there was one thing, the one relationship that you almost tripled, you did triple down on, which is in your case, Lori, the bridegroom. It was the savior. It wasn't, it wasn't anything with it wasn't your relationship. You didn't have to like deep inside yourself look inward when you were being invalidated to question if it was right. You didn't look outward to judge and get angry at them. It was you able, you were able to find safety in anchoring it to the savior. What a wonderful thing.

SPEAKER_02 51:52

Yeah. I I remember um in the process early on, I saw my state president down in the Tampa Bay area, and he gave me a blessing, and he said, and I was shocked, he said, you'll receive more love and joy than you can possibly imagine. And I remember as I was dating, and um, and you know, it'd be like seven or eight weeks in, and things are going well, and then it's just like, oh, another heartbreak. I don't know if I can do this again, like repeated, repeated, repeated. I had no idea that I was just getting primed to meet Scott. But um, you know, I, you know, coming back to the temple the night of my first mediation, I was blessed with two 13 hours, 11 hours, it was rough. But some beloved friends said, come over afterwards and my husband will give you a blessing. And it was like I could energetically feel it was the most beautiful, profound um blessing that he gave me. But their young teenage daughters that I had known for years, like watched them grow up. She was 18 and she said, How have you stayed strong through all of this? Right. And I look back, and at the time I could look back and see, oh, it was my temple covenants. It was, you know, participating in regularly going to the temple and and creating that strength year after year after year. I didn't know this was coming. Right? I didn't know this was coming. Heavenly Father knew it was coming. In fact, he prepared me um with some promptings for things to do um professionally before all this fell apart. Like now I can, you know, in hindsight, I could look back and go, whoa, I had no idea, but he did. And um I just can't say enough that yes, how we have to transform, even if it's in a tough marriage, as we continue to look inward, as we continue to get on our knees and beg for truth, you know, Lord is it I, what else do I need to see? Like I was given specific answers on what I needed to work on or what I needed to invite him to do together as a couple, my my previous marriage, um, to try and move things, you know, in a better direction. And and I didn't have the power to do that on my own. And and he made choices. And in hindsight, I should have paid attention to the big red flag that he shared before we were sealed in the temple. You know, if I'm unhappy, I'm gonna get divorced. Oh. Should have paid attention to that, but um, didn't know, you know, didn't pay attention to that back door. I was just like, I was 40 and I wanted to be married and have a family and jumped right in. But um, there is nothing that the two of us want more than a beautiful celestial marriage. And and we've both, as you said, we've had to go through our own refining process to come to a place now where we um have greater faith, we have greater testimonies, we have greater gratitude for because we've seen the hand of the Lord in our lives repeatedly. Right? We've had we've we've had the blessing of of being anchored there. It's just like we didn't know how this was gonna turn out. And now we can look back and say, wow, this is how he made it all turn out.

SPEAKER_01 55:44

Guys, I can't thank you enough for both being on the show. This has been such a powerful episode.

Rapid Fire Advice And Final Hope

SPEAKER_01 55:49

I'd like to end with some rapid fire questions for both of you guys. Okay. Um, we'll kick it off and you can just take turns answering them. Favorite temple draper. Draper for for Scott. What about you, Lori? The San Diego temple. I've only been there once. My goodness, is it beautiful? Oh breathtaking. That's my favorite. Love it. What advice? What one piece of advice? Like, just you know, kind of to really as concise as possible. What's one piece of advice you'd give to a newly a new couple getting married for the first time? Like marriage advice.

SPEAKER_02 56:34

Um focus on what you need to shift and change. Take on per personal responsibility, beg the Lord to help you see what you need to see to refine yourself, to become the charitable queen, eternal queen that you want to be.

SPEAKER_01 56:54

Love that. What about you, Scott?

SPEAKER_00 56:59

Good question. Um I think that's really good advice to to look inward, to look in the mirror. Um I I would I would say a couple of I'd say a couple of things. Choose to believe. Choose to believe in something wonderful. Um you know, we go to the temple, this may not be a quick fire answer, um, but we go to the temple and and we're getting, we're not getting like a 30,000 view. We're we're getting the father and the savior's view of of where they need us to be, like in the eternities. This is like from the moon or from farther out looking at the earth. This is a really comprehensive. So uh one bit of advice: don't take yourself really too seriously. Choose to believe, uh, fix things that need to be fixed, and um if things are unhealthy, uh seek some help help. That was just one thing that that uh I uh we really needed in my first relationship. I was married for 30 years, and it wasn't a healthy relationship, and and we we were resisted to go to counseling. We you know, we we repressed our feelings, we did a lot of things that were in inappropriate and unhealthy. And so there are ways, there are modalities, there are ideas of good people that have gone through this. Go get some help, talk to some people about this can be such a wonderful, exciting, blessed experience, or it can really suck. So make it, you know, do the things you need to do so that you can be healthy or or or or recognize that this this isn't healthy and and Heavenly Father and our Savior want us to be happy. They want us to have peace in life, they want us to know about their love. And it's really challenging to have those things if we're in a bad marriage relationship that is just not working for whatever reason. So find some help, try to work it out, try to try to do those things that, if possible, to have the healing influence of our Savior make it wonderful and happy and committed and good.

SPEAKER_01 59:25

That's a great answer.

SPEAKER_02 59:26

Of course. Um I I would suggest that both the husband and the wife spend time digging in, learning about men and women and the divine differences between an estrogen-marinated brain and a testosterone-marinated brain, and why God divinely designed us to be different. I spent 12 years in coursework studying that, and then read all the books I can, whether it's John Gray or whoever you read, Mars and Venus, like dig in so you can start learning and appreciating the divine gifts that Heavenly Father has bestowed or has bestowed to both of us, right? Um, that we can start learning and seeing, like, oh, wow, when I look at it through his eyes, like, wow. And when I can start to understand the gift that he that um that his skill set and his brain and his intellect and his spirit and his priesthood bring to our relationship, it's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:36

You guys, this has been such a wonderful episode. My last question is a low softball answer, but I just want you guys to answer this because it will go in your family history. It will also serve as hope for those who are listening to this episode from a place of clinging to something that might be real for them because it became real for you guys. Simply put, what is one thing that you love about the other person?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:01

Oh, immediately when I met him, it was his sensitivity to the spirit.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:08

I can feel that as he talks. He has a very like in. We're talking about Scott like he's not in the room. Scott is very in tune. I love that. What's your answer, Scott?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:19

That's very kind of you to say. Um I was especially impressed with Lori's desire to do what is right. She has wonderful faith, she has uh wonderful strength, um, discipline to to do what is right, to do the right thing, um, to be obedient, to honor sacred covenants.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:44

Yeah, I and I I love that. Go keep sorry, keep on keeping it.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:48

Well, you know, the first law of the gospel is obedience. And um, Lori, that's really firmly planted in her, her faith in the savior. So I was especially impressed with that.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:03

And as someone who knows her professionally, because that's how Lori and I met, was through our professional alignment. Uh, you just light up a room, Lori. You light up a room wherever you go. And I'm so grateful that we had the opportunity and privilege to be with both you guys here on Temple Bound. Thank you guys so much for being on the show. Thank you for the difference you're making. Oh, you're so welcome. And thank you guys who are listening at this point. You know, I just wanted to throw out there before we wrap up just this last lesson that I feel like Scott and Lori taught me, which is that when we are lonely and when we are feeling like we are the odd man out, no matter what the trial is, is that anchoring to the savior is the one constant that not only unifies and keeps us grounded during those difficult times, but it allows us to hope for something bigger and to really expect something more because the Lord wants you to be happy. You deserve happiness in marriage and in your family. So thanks again for tuning into Temple Bound. Until next time. Temple Bound is brought to you by the Light on a Hill Foundation, a nonprofit aimed at building and strengthening families across the globe. Produced by Heather Humphreys, with show notes and social media managed by Isabel Dizon and Kimberly Simvafon. Wardrobe by Anne Collar. These views and opinions expressed by the host and guests are on their own and do not necessarily reflect those of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Thank you for joining us today as we continue learning, growing, and striving to bind our lives closer to Savior. Until next time.