Temple Bound

Temple Prep for a Generation That Wants Proof with JD and Kendra

• Will • Season 1 • Episode 91

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JD and Kendra Dockstader have taught temple prep for three years, and they've watched the class change right along with the kids sitting in it. This episode is for parents, temple prep teachers, and anyone trying to figure out how to talk about the temple with a generation that gets most of its information from TikTok before it ever gets to church.

JD and Kendra walk through what they actually teach: the five covenants, the difference between worthiness and perfection, and why leaning into symbolism works better than starting with Solomon's Temple. They talk about covenant path versus life plan, why comparison is the real threat to these kids, and what it means that the temple manual most wards are using was written in 1978.

Will, JD, and Kendra also get into something bigger than curriculum. Kids are being trained to see the temple through influencer content whether their parents opt in or not. The conversation covers what that training looks like, how to counter it without being combative, and why moral authority (living it, not just explaining it) is the most convincing lesson a parent gives.

Topics covered:

  • Why the standard temple prep manual hasn't kept up with how youth learn
  • Teaching the five covenants without making them feel like a surprise
  • Worthiness versus perfection, and why kids confuse the two
  • Covenant path versus life plan, and the pressure of doing things in a certain order
  • Symbolism as a teaching tool, from the altar to the clothing to the building itself
  • How proximity to a temple (or distance from one) shapes a family's relationship with it
  • Advice for anyone newly called as a temple prep teacher

If you're a parent wondering when to start these conversations, or a teacher trying to figure out how to reach kids who already think they know what's inside, this one gives you a real starting point.

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Missionary Month And The Stakes

SPEAKER_01

July is missionary month here on Temple Bound. So whether you have a missionary leaving or coming home or somewhere in the middle, you don't want to miss these powerful episodes geared to help each of you in this process draw closer to Christ as you make these changes. All of it through the lens of the temple. Here's the hard truth in today's episode. If you're not preparing your kids for the temple, the world already is TikTok, influencers, Netflix. They're training your kids whether you like it or not. And my guest today, JD and Kendra DocksDater, have spent three years teaching temple prep, and they're here to help you take it back, to help you remove the secrecy and add back the sacredness. JD and Kendra, thank you so much for being on Temple Bound. Why don't you set the table a little bit and tell the audience about who you are and what we're gonna be talking about today?

SPEAKER_03

Uh yeah, absolutely. So JD and Kendra Doxdator, we uh moved here and actually met you kind of early on in our first uh stint here in Arizona back in 2008 is when we moved here from uh most recently from California. And uh we've been here almost all that time except for a small stint when we moved out to uh Olatha, Kansas. Uh we were there for four or five years and then moved back to the exact same house. So um we love Arizona. Kendra and I met uh gosh in 1993. In fact, just this morning, oddly enough, I reread the letter I used uh to propose to her, which was a mission call.

SPEAKER_01

This

Meet JD And Kendra

SPEAKER_01

morning.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, just this morning.

SPEAKER_01

Wait, a letter that you read to her that was a mission call?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, so our kids about a year ago framed my proposal letter. All of her roommates were getting um mission calls, and Kendra had not decided if she was going on a mission yet.

SPEAKER_01

So you called her to be married.

SPEAKER_03

So I called her to be the eternal companion of JD Dox Tater. And I wrote a letter and put it on the official letterhead and rewrote it almost exactly like you would write it uh if you were getting a mission call. And they framed it, and literally this morning for some reason I read that, and that's when I knew it was 1993 because uh proposed in 94, and we were married in 1995.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, that's so great. What did you think about that, by the way, Kendra, when you got it?

SPEAKER_00

I actually loved it, right? It totally spoke to me because I'd been like, how do I know what I'm supposed to do? I think I'm supposed to go on a mission. So, anyways, I'm yeah, I loved it. It's pretty cute that it's framed in our bedroom now.

SPEAKER_01

Heather was the same way. She was preparing to go on a mission, and then we started dating, and she was talking to her bishop, and she was feeling conflicted about dating me or not. And I was I was just like, she was so far out of my league, I didn't think there was a chance she'd marry me anyway. But then he just said, Yeah, let's look at like the outcomes of a mission, the outcomes of being married, and what that looks like. And so I didn't go as far as doing the letter. Yeah. That's a neat similarity that we have in that. So thank you for sharing. Uh Kendra, what are we talking about today?

SPEAKER_00

Um, we have been temple prep teachers for about three years, and we're talking about temple prep.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so talk to me a little bit about what your experience, what your temple worship looked like before. I'm guessing the reason I asked that kind of a loaded question is I'm guessing this has changed or evolved or upgraded in some way your temple worship experience. Is that fair?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, absolutely. No doubt that it it causes you to look through things at a uh through a little different lens. Um and much like all of our different assignments or responsibilities, whether it's motherhood or fatherhood or being a grandparent or a Sunday school teacher, you have to tell a sense sometimes go, wait, am I am I doing what I should be doing? Do I have moral authority to be doing what I've been asked to do? And so whether that's again in callings or in life in general, you gotta look for that moral authorities to be able to stand in front of somebody and and teach.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, most definitely. And so what would you say? Kind of cutting to that piece, Kendra. How has becoming a temple prep teacher changed your temple worship? How has it impacted that?

SPEAKER_00

That's a great question, Will. Um I think really what along with being a temple prep teacher as well as a parent that's had three of our four kids go through the temple, it's changed my perspective on um you know, what do I need to do to be worthy to be in there to be in the temple and what can I do to learn more while I'm there? Right. How can I approach that? And then how in turn can I share that with um you know the youth with my kids that I, you know, have gone through the temple and the

How Teaching Changes Temple Worship

SPEAKER_00

youth that we're teaching.

SPEAKER_01

So they've really inspired that because when you're teaching it, it's like a different perspective. It's one thing we're doing it for us, it's another thing we're doing it for the others on the other side of the veil, but when you're doing it when you're teaching in other young kids or your own kids, that meaning goes up significantly. And so it sounds like you've been able to pick up a a whole different level of understanding.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. I think one thing that kind of stuck out to me is if we're not teaching our kids or or helping them get to a temple class, the world is teaching them. Uh in in this preparation, I've found TikTok videos and Instagram videos from influencers, some good, some bad, that are teaching about the temple. Right, wrong, and different, whatever it might be. So if we're not doing it, they're getting it somewhere else. And so that's kind of been my approach is what are they seeing out there? And how can I either build upon that that's already in their algorithm feed, or what can I do to counteract that to say, hey, here's another angle to look at that. Because even some of the quote unquote positive influencers are taking very unique approaches to what happens within the temple. Um, and that's you know, a level of sacredness or whatever it might be that you might agree or disagree with. That was my take is like, how can I how can I put my spin on this that's counteractive to maybe what they're getting in their normal feeds that we know they're they're watching.

SPEAKER_01

It never occurred to me that in today's world, because of social media, that our kids are being prepared for the temple one way or another. It's almost like a and now it's a passive thing as long as they have access to social media. And so when I say prepared, that might not be the right word. They're being uh trained. Yeah. They're being trained to see and understand the temple from different lights and angles. And if we just leave it into like how I was, I there was no I don't I don't remember going to a class. I don't remember my parents sitting down with me.

SPEAKER_03

It was in the it was in the backseat of the car. Hey, hey Will, we're on our way. You're gonna love this.

SPEAKER_01

That's exactly what it was. No sh no fault to my parents, because that's what everyone did back then. But nowadays, if we don't take control of like uh and intentionally train our our our to prep our our children and our our youth for the temple, someone else will. And like you said, it's not all bad, but I would argue most of it is.

SPEAKER_03

And the church has done an amazing job. And that's one thing we joked about in in our preparation. The manual they give you, we met the bishop and he goes, Will you be temple prep teachers? And he hands this book over. And I think the copyright date is like 1978 or something. No way. The church has done amazing pr things in evolving and changing the way we teach and learn. Uh somehow they've left that one behind a little bit. And so the book itself, it's still valid and great, but we had to reinvent a way to reach these kids to speak their language and to teach in the way which they're gonna understand, because uh quite frankly, the book's a little outdated. Yeah, right. And I mean, if like I said, the days we went through, we were asked to go make five covenants. We didn't know what those covenants were until you were sitting there. You'd be like, I don't know if I want to make these, but I'm here now. Nowadays, we get to talk about those five covenants. We mention them by name, we discuss what they are, and say, Do you want to go make these covenants? And this is what's next, and these are the promises that come with those. We didn't get that. We showed up and they're like, get ready, you're making a covenant. And you're like, what is it? Right? And so again, the church has done such an amazing job opening that up, removing the secrecy and adding the sacredness to what's really what's there.

SPEAKER_01

Removing the secrecy and adding the sacredness to this. You know, it's so funny because it's so true that like I I I really understand why there wasn't much mention of those covenants before we went in there, because they're just extensions of things we've already promised to do. If we're you know, but but at the same time, there is that you don't want to have any surprises in those ways that would cause someone to lose presence as to what's really going on. Kendra, something you said before we hit record is this idea that like you guys have had to change how you teach temple prep in the last three years. Why was that? Why do you have to change why did you have to evolve your teaching to the youth?

SPEAKER_00

Well, we started off trying to teach out of that book, right? Like we were we were extended the call and were teaching like, you know, two weeks later, and we're sort of a a little I personally was a little bit like deer in the headlights, like, oh, how am I how are we doing this? And so we kind of followed that. And you know, I mean, those those youth I think are getting ready to come home from their missions and bless their hearts. They worked out. I hope they, yeah, they made it on missions. But um I think, you know, I hope that this group that we just finished with like a month ago, I I hope, like I feel like we shared the shared things with them and prepared them a little bit better. Um because we recognize I think one of the things is youth these days are um they're next level, right? We you always hear that, but with that next level comes this element of questioning because they have to know for themselves. And so we've had to um approach it with like information that they can like take in and pray about. Like it was so cool this past time that we taught um just a couple months ago. They would come back with these questions and we look at each other and JD go, you know what, let me f let me figure that out for next time, you know, because they're thinking about this and they're taking it in. And I feel like my experience when I went to the temple, nobody told me anything. I didn't even get the shout out in the back of the car. And I came out of there kind of mad, like what? Nobody told me

Social Media And Modern Temple Prep

SPEAKER_00

what was going on. And I I felt a little blindsided.

SPEAKER_01

As many people do. Yeah. Or used to do at least.

SPEAKER_00

At least, yeah. And I hope like these guys are going into it, like JD said, we we they know what they're at least what the covenants are called that they're um, you know, about to make, and that they have more of a desire to like know and be a little more prepared to go into that.

SPEAKER_01

That's amazing. It's amazing that this new generation is looking for answers and questions. I think in a world where truth and is is hard to see, when you can you can deep fake any video, you can make it really hard to like I had a friend who was telling me about the new AI um voice cloning. He he sent a text to our our professional business group, and he's like, guys, this is super scary. I'm like, why is that? Five seconds later, he sent me a voice memo from me saying that my last will and testament was to give all of my money and earnings to my best friend Chris Cardinal, who's the guy that sent it to me, but it was my voice. Yeah. He's like, Do you get it now? And I went, yeah. So there's something about truth and um authenticity that this generation really wants. So let's dive into that. What do you guys see? Because right now, just for a quick recap to the audience, you're tell the uh audience who are you teaching temple prep to?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, so obviously anybody that's preparing to enter the temple is invited to come to the class. Uh traditionally, within our demographics of where we live, it's kids that are graduating high school, uh, either preparing to go on a mission, preparing to leave the home, um, preparing possibly to get married. Um and it covers the you know the spectrum of all of them. Some of them have their calls already. Some of the young women are still in that in that decision phase and may not know if they want to go yet. Um, but it that's who's invited to come. Anybody that's preparing, but our our experience has been with graduating seniors that are ready to kind of take the next step in life and the next step in the covenant path.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I'm excited about today's episode for lots of reasons. One of them is that I think when someone gets called into being a temple prep teacher, wouldn't it be nice to hear a podcast episode from three-year veterans to talk about what this is like, right? And what to think about. Because for a lot of people that's the case. But for some temple prep teachers, it might be older members of the church because they're in a more developing area of the world, whatever.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_01

But I still think those concepts will be universal across the board. So, what do you guys find are the challenges? You mentioned a little bit about that need for more data, and they have deeper questions, but what do you guys see are the challenges that these youth are facing as it comes to helping them understand and get ready for their temple experience?

SPEAKER_03

I think um probably a lack of understanding that it's something that they already know. You mentioned that as we as we first started. It's really building upon a foundation that's already there. Somehow in our culture, we've built it up that the temple is something so unique and different, and something you you know you sing songs about that you're gonna go there someday, but yet it it's really the same concepts and principles that we've taught since primary and since our early days of the church. And so that's the kind of the challenge is like, hey guys, this isn't some big giant new thing that's gonna seem completely out of left field. At its core, and what we do there is the plan of salvation, and it's the symbolism that everything comes back to Christ. That's it. Now we do things that might be ritual based, or you might have clothing that's special, but that's the same thing with a graduation. We just, you know, we're coming up on graduation season here soon, and same thing. We wear graduation robes to signify something. Guess what? Same thing happens in the temple. Do you want to make it look and sound weird, or do you want to say, hey, this is exactly what I'm used to doing and seeing in other aspects of my life? So that's kind of been the challenge of changing that culture that may be in something so unique and different to your experience there is that it's not. It is line upon line, precept upon precept. You know this stuff. It is the plan of salvation, it's symbolism of Christ. Come on in.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so you you talk about the nuances, but you're really grounding it into something as an extension of what they already know, which is something that I think we get confused with with all the signs, the tokens, the symbolism. When we really start to understand those things, it's like, I already know this. It's just a deeper way of connecting with it. Um Kendra, I wonder, like from your perspective, you know, JD was saying that a lot of the the youth that come in, they don't know a lot about it, right? Is that your experience as well?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, uh it was interesting. Um I feel like they have little pieces that they hear about, right? Like new names or um uh you know, garments are not a big thing. But it's a hot topic because the you know they made some changes to them slightly recently, you know. So things like that that um they they'll pull out little pieces and ask questions about. Um but I uh yeah, they didn't have I I think w the idea that it was part of the plan that um it was like the plan of salvation, I I think that was kind of a new felt new to them.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So so a lot of it is nuanced. They hear things because again, they're getting prepared, prepared or trained, better said, by social media one way or another. So they're bringing those elements of what they're hearing or seeing to class. Right. So that's cool that you guys create a safe place for that. What do you think parents should be doing? Like in my mind, I just I'm not now realizing that my two youngest at home. Like I I don't talk to them about preparing them for the temple. They're 14 and 15.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it feels a little bit out.

SPEAKER_01

It feels yeah. I mean, I talked to them about baptisms for the dead, and we talk about you know covenants and those types of things. But from in your opinion, do you think that that's something that they should be doing, or parents should be doing before they get to temple prep?

SPEAKER_00

Right? Like a little open conversation about things, about I mean, even if it is some of those little nuanced things, like we've talked, our youngest um isn't in doubt, and we've had quite a conversation about these changes in in the garment, for example, you know what I mean? But um we've, you know, we she was in our class a year ago, and um so it was kind of fun to teach her, and we've talked a little bit more about like the plan of salvation and things like that. But yeah, I think relating things to the temple will make it easier in conversation, right? Open conversation with your kids now makes it easier when that time comes because it's like, oh yeah, I've been I talked about my parents, you know, about this with my parents. Oh yeah, we talk about this at home. I just have never done it.

SPEAKER_03

Well, and I think more than well, you're doing it, you're not doing it. You you're you're doing it, but you don't realize you're doing it. I go back to that moral agency. You if your kids are seeing you go to the temple, you're teaching them about the temple, right? So you may not be having these conversations, but imagine not going to the temple on a regular basis, your kids don't see you going. They're like, what's that weird bag that you carry out of the house once every eight months, right? And then you come to them and say, hey, you really need to go do this. You don't, it doesn't fly with them, right? But so the fact that the kids are seeing you go to the temple, they see you talking about it, they they're seeing you give firesides and talks and even running a podcast about it, right? You're teaching them more than you think you are. Now, on an occasion, can a parent sit down and be like, hey, let me just tell you a little bit about why I'm going and this name that I'm going for and what what that what that's about, then I think it sparks that interest and and opens up that dialogue to where they can you can almost ask any question outside the temple, right? And have a meaningful conversation about it without revealing what we've been asked to keep sacred. Um and I think our older generation, and maybe that's the way they had to live life, and that's what they were prepared for in that time, and and keeping these things that sacred was was needed, and and now we need to be more open and honest about and not honest, but more uh open-minded about those conversations because of the generation which we're we're teaching.

SPEAKER_01

I love the idea that we're teaching them by example first and foremost, right? It's like teacher teach always, sometimes use words, and that's true. And I still am grounded by that thing you guys were talking about earlier. Call our kids are are receiving information whether we are speaking to them or not. So I almost feel this like increased urgency of like sitting down with my boys and explaining them why I'm doing

Covenants, Symbols, And Worthiness

SPEAKER_01

the podcast, right? Like, why am I why are we going to the temple? Why do we have the bag? Because I think that as we get into the latter days, things become more clear at the temple. Uh the ceremony has become way more refined as we continue to receive revelation, and it's so beautiful, and it's become this more like clear way of understanding worship. And yet the the information, the misinformation, the the way it's being perceived is so much more against the kids as they are growing.

SPEAKER_03

And and you said the key word, and there's there's a line in the temple uh that gives us that perfect doubt. The the endowment session was given by revelation and should be received by revelation, right? Yeah. And you just said that it's like you know what, I don't have to teach you everything because I'm still learning, and you're gonna learn it by revelation, right? And so that was kind of the weight off my shoulders of trying to teach you what these guys they have to understand what the new name is. They they don't until they're in there and and they're pondering it from themselves and they're seeking that personal revelation, they can understand why, and it's just like they did in the time of the Bible, right? Peter got a new or Simon got a new name, and when you when you commit to a new lifestyle and a new commitment to Christ, people were given new names. Okay, so you understand the basics of it? Now enter the temple and ponder about it and receive it deeper by revelation. And that's that's all they need to know.

SPEAKER_01

So I love that. So talking about these this generation who wants truth and authenticity, you know, I've I've experienced like we were talking about before we hit record, how the youth they they also don't want to like the why behind it is something that I think you guys are are uh far along the road in. I'd love to hear your thoughts on how do you teach the youth the why we go to the temple. You know, if we just say it's because we're going to coming closer to Jesus, they're like, well, yeah, that's everything. So how do you how do you make them want to how do you make them want to go and like have have their own desire to actually attend the temple? And I I shouldn't say how do you make them. Did I say make them? How do you force them? How do you invite them to develop that internal desire to naturally go to the temple and make covenants?

SPEAKER_00

Good question. There was something, so there's this book by Anthony Sweat that we actually gave to um the our students um at the end. And at the very beginning, I was um I was reviewing it kind of in preparation for this. And the very first you know, intro page it has a quote from Joseph Smith and it says, I want all you to know God to be familiar with him. And when we know how to come unto him, God begins to unfold the heavens to us and tell us all about it. And I I think the key is right, teaching them, wanting them to have that desire to have the heavens unfold to them, right? God wants to share everything when you prepare to get to know him, right? To come to the temple to know him. Um which I think that's like the key, right? To to teach them to want to know God.

SPEAKER_01

So you show them through that quote and some other things that like God is waiting for them to come. I want to I want to know you more.

SPEAKER_00

I want you to know me more. Yes, know me more.

SPEAKER_03

So being the typical male, I'm gonna look at it from a more selfish standpoint. I'm like, what's what's in it for me, right? Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01

Which by the way is probably very appropriate for this generation as well.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and I think I think it is. I mean it's something like, okay, that's great, like you said, getting getting to know Jesus better, but really what's in it for me? And I'm gonna book in that quote with, and I can't say it um um as President Nelson did, but he talked about only through attendance at the temple will you have access to God's power. So that kind of sent me down this well, what is God's power? You know, can I create worlds without ends? Can I, you know, do well, no, that's not what he's talking about yet. But when I'm here on this earth and this temporal experience, God's power is more patience, more um, more assertiveness, more love, more kindness, all those things that that embody God I get access to by surely uh attending the temple. And and then I started battling with, well, uh I'm going to the temple for all these personal reasons. I kind of feel self serving. But you can't really get into the temple and through the temple without serving somebody else. And I found that very amazing. It's like all right, I'm I always seem to go to the celestial room looking for answers, looking for counsel or guidance or comfort. But yet The only way I get there is through doing the work for somebody else. Sacrificing my time, my energy, my effort to do something for somebody else in the service, and then at the end, I may get access to God's power. And it's I can't do it without service first.

SPEAKER_01

Isn't it interesting? You know, going to the law of sacrifice. You know, once you're obedient, the next thing you do, because obedience is a is a little bit about me. You know, I'm obedient because I love God and I want Him to love me. And it's very I think obedience is is fairly transactional, which is fine because it's the foundational level level. Sacrifice is where we step that up into transformational. Because now I'm giving something to somebody else because I have to see God in you, and you and you, and and you know, love my neighbor, which is that second thing. And so as I'm going into that space, it's interesting how in my experience, I have felt God's love for other people and then me easier than just me. When I when I you know when you're praying for when you were bishop and you were looking for revelation for callings, or when we're praying for our kids and we're really looking for something for our child, we can feel it's almost easier to feel God's love through us to them, which then imprints on us his love for us in return. It's it's an interesting, it's like he wants us to feel loved, but he knows the processes that we have to serve out as actually change us.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So how I would love to jump in now. I'm in my mind selfishly, where I'm going in my head with this time with you, is recognizing that I want to start building my own temple prep class in my home. Because I want to, I don't want to leave it to default to the to the world to teach my kids what the what what an influencer thinks about clothing or whatever. I wonder if you could share things that you guys teach in your temple prep class. It can be, it doesn't have to be in a specific order or anything, but is there anything that comes to mind that you have taught or do teach that that stands out when you're teaching the youth?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I mean, I I think one, you know, I've created a couple different uh slide decks that we use as we go through the process. Um and really I kind of focus on the symbolism side of things. I'll throw up uh a picture of a heart, uh, the Red Cross, the International Sign for Peace. Like, you know, what do these mean? Or the American flag, right? What do these invoke? Uh what feelings do they invoke upon you when you see that? Uh when you see two wedding rings together, right? What does that mean to you? And so I love to teach that concept of symbolism because within the temple, as we know, there's just symbolism from the moment you get out of the car in the parking lot looking at the building itself, right, to as you walk through the entire process, there's symbolism everywhere. Um and so I like to talk about that because again, some of the things that may get spun off as cultish or weird is is just symbolism. And for the only reason that God knows that that's how we learn. We learn through symbolism. If it was all text, if it was all a movie, then we might forget it. But when he combines everything, the emotional side, the textural, the the video, the uh signs and tokens that are all involved in there, there's so many different avenues to learn and then remember from. Yeah. And so I love the symbolism that's there within the clothing, within the altars, within the paintings, within the the woodwork, um, everything. I mean, just as simple as the altar is, I mean, the altar is Jesus Christ. And I'm sometimes I just think, well, no, that's just an altar where you go to get married. No, but that is just remember the symbolism that's there. So that's really what I love to focus in on. I can lose my my the time is let's talk about the symbolism that's there. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_01

Does this younger generation gravitate towards that? Do they like learning about the symbols?

SPEAKER_03

Uh you you see that aha moment. They're like, oh, yeah, that's kind of neat. Yeah. So they they see that, right? I don't gravitate, I don't know. Again, we only get them for 45 minutes, you know, a few days. Uh well, it should be five to six weeks. But again, that book is just not enough content there. So and they spent a lot of time talking about Solomon's temple. I'm like, I get it. I mean, this the history goes back a long way. And you and I and and the older generation, they might like, yeah, this the the connection to the ancient temples is pretty dang cool. Yeah. They don't care. Right? So yeah, we get them for three weeks, we've condensed it into three weeks. And uh, you have the temple prep class in three weeks?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Oh, that's amazing. Yeah. So what do you cover? Can you outline a little bit about so you cover symbols? What else do you guys cover?

SPEAKER_00

Um let's see. We cover uh Obviously the five cut the five covenants.

SPEAKER_01

We spend a lot of time talking about it. How much time is is you is the five covenants when you're when you're teaching? Yeah, it's a full lesson. So that's one third. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um we talk about preparation, obviously, like uh actual steps, right? What you need to go buy things, you need to have an interview with the bishop and the state president. You know what I mean? The actual process. Yeah. We go over that.

SPEAKER_03

We talk about you know worthiness is a big thing. And we talk about the difference between worthiness and perfection. I think that's something that this generation struggles with is this confusion of am I worthy, am I perfect? And they think that's sometimes one and the same, and it and it's not.

SPEAKER_01

Let's double-click on that. Let's double-click. How have you experienced the youth understanding of worthy versus perfect?

SPEAKER_03

Um I it's probably more with our own children than we have with these kids. Again, you know, we see them at church and we see them for these 45 minutes in our within our home there. Um but watching our own children, and and I'm teaching Sunday school right now as well. Um and I think it's it's just this expectation that they have to live a perfect life and that the the I think a lack of understanding of the atonement um is uh all-reaching, right? That that uh again, not everything is uh something you have to confess to the bishop, but yet you can still seek repentance through prayer and and accessing the atonement in your in your bedroom at night, and that's sufficient for him and for you to enter his whole his holy house.

SPEAKER_00

We um we had this opportunity this last class. Um our middle daughter was home. And we asked her, she went through the temple a couple years ago, and we asked her to share her experience because a lot of these kids knew her, you know, know who she is.

SPEAKER_01

She's relatable, she's one of them.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. She's not she's not that much older than them, you know. And um, so she shared because she didn't go on a mission and she isn't getting she's not married.

The Why Behind Temple Worship

SPEAKER_00

She had kind of just this desire to go through the temple. And then she went up to BYU and her state president gave a talk that was encouraging um anyone who you know wasn't endowed to seek to know if they were ready, if they should be endowed, and that I mean he just encouraged it. And so she started praying about it, and then she came home and she uh she was like, I think I want to go through the temple. And again, this kind of goes back to that check in the box, right? She was like, I'm not going on a mission, I'm not getting married. I mean, should I do this now? And she kind of questioned it, and we counseled with her and and talked about it, and she decided to do it. And then what she shared with them is that the following year was probably one of the hardest years of her life, but she had this foundation of the temple that she's like, I can see directly that Heavenly Father wanted me to be sorry, prepared and have that armor, so to speak, to make it through that really hard year.

SPEAKER_02

Wow.

SPEAKER_00

And um so I I just think um it's the world is hard right now, right? And we don't have they don't they don't need the temple in their life. And um there's lots of people encouraging that, and it doesn't have to be for a mission or for getting married. It can be because you want to walk that, take that next step on the covenant path.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you, Kendra, for separating out the concept of what the temple is as a part of the covenant path and not part of a life plan.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I think that's we I think we confuse life plans and covenant paths.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_01

And I've I've have children who haven't followed the traditional process. And it's interesting when your kids don't follow that process, the the the typical life plan. And this is for people who are listening who might live in a bit of a bubble. I would say that we live in Gilbert in what I call a bubble of, and it's so amazing that it actually adds a weird sort of like inverse pressure to do things in a very typical order fashion at a certain age timeline. And when our kids aren't going through that, talk about the pressure of perfectionism that really starts to show up, and the adversary loves to use that. But there's something freeing. As hard as I hate as a parent having my child kind of struggle through that, but it's their courage that breaks me free of what I see and describe more as culture of how things are supposed to go, because there's no judgment on people who follow life plans. That's wonderful. But that's not the covenant path. And everyone, everyone's called in different ways and different times and different seasons, and it's you know, the Lord is all about variety. And so even though it's these things are all where we want to go, it's like who and when and how is all in his timing. Right. The Lord never said marriage and marriage has to happen in between 20 and 25 years old.

SPEAKER_03

Unless you're living in Provo on campus.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I think another culture shift in the world. Yeah, totally. It's like that whole concept is so like, but it's so commonly thought of that it's hard for kids to distinguish between culture and the path in those regards. I love that. Yes. Yeah, I love that share. Well, guys, this is so fun to think about how we can develop that. Now, let's take a step, you know, as you know, a big chunk of our audience is is in Africa, and these are very, very new members of the church. And so we we love all of you in Africa as you're listening to this. Uh and and so when you when you think about what would you want someone who's brand new in the church, like brand new in the church, someone who doesn't even know that they can go back more than once. Yeah, like how would you speak to them about the first steps maybe they should take in getting ready for the temple? Is it more tactical in terms of the process? Is it more mindset? Is it more um yeah, what would you guys say about that?

SPEAKER_03

I boy, I mean, we almost talk about that, that it could potentially be a negative thing. To me, what a beautiful opportunity to be a clean slate um of not having any preconceived notions or expectations or teachings that happen. It to me it's like I I know I think the rule is you've got to wait a year after conversion to to enter the temple. To me, it's like, man, sooner you can get there the better, and obviously the the more frequent you can the better. But um I would focus less on the processes and what's next because it's it's all there, it's gonna be taking place for you. Just uh focus on knowing that uh again it's all centered on Christ, that that it is um a a place to go to um uh know him better.

SPEAKER_01

I love that. I love that. So centered on Christ, what would you say?

SPEAKER_00

I was just gonna say I think um what I would say is it's just line upon line. Go because you want to for the first time, right? And that's okay. And take it in. And then go back because you want to know more. And go back because you wanna, you know, understand this, or you notice this, and you just you'll get it, right? It just it starts flowing and you know, you you'll things will be opened up to you as you, you know, try it like we already said, you receive things by revelation. So as we seek answers, it'll open up to us.

SPEAKER_03

I'll add to that too that I I can only imagine they might feel some intimidation of people that have been there before, you know, workers or other people. There's something so beautiful about the equality that happens within the temple. The moment you walk in, the sense of equality, whether it's your first time or your thousandth time, one nobody knows, and two, it doesn't matter. Right. And they don't care, and you don't care, and it's everything from being dressed similarly to um what you're doing, it's just the equality. So there's absolutely zero um intimidation or comparison that you might feel within your ward chapels or within your friend group, but that all disappears once you enter his house, because there is no comparison.

SPEAKER_00

And that there's always someone there to help you, right? Even the person sitting next to you can probably help you if you're like, hey, I'm not sure what to do, or or whatever, right? There or there's temple workers that are always gonna very lovingly, quietly try and help you with whatever.

SPEAKER_01

I'm so glad you said that, Kendra, because you know I think that's everyone's fear. When we ever, when anyone, I don't care how old or young you are, when you're in a new environment, it's about fitting in and belonging. So when you're in this new environment, the intimidation, knowing that there's someone who will always be there to support you, and so there's nothing to worry about. Everything is gonna be amazing. I love that advice. I think that's very sage advice. I have a question that came to mind that I feel like I'm supposed to ask you guys that is a little bit left field. You know, we've lived in Gilbert next to each other for well over a decade, maybe two days, I don't know. It's been a long time.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

How do you think living so when the Gilbert Temple was built within a walk of our homes, how has that, in retrospect, how how do you think that's impacted your family? If at all.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, just seeing it every day. What a what an amazing blessing to have that constant reminder. Every time you leave your neighborhood, you've got to drive past it. Um so I love just that constant reminder of what it stands for and who it is and how often we should go. I I wish it said, well, because I can walk to it, I go to it three times a week now. Unfortunately, I'm weak and and don't and don't. Two to three times a week?

SPEAKER_01

Let's not put that kind of judgment out there. That's true.

SPEAKER_03

I would say once a month would be great, too. But exactly. But uh just the visibility of it. Um and I would think the other part is talking about it to the non-members. I mean, there's people that I'm giving directions to for where for a work event that I'm overseeing, and they're like, oh, is that over there by that big Mormon temple? Yeah, it is. Actually, I live on the same block at that. Have you ever been to it? It's opened up conversations and opportunities that it wouldn't be if I wasn't living so close to it and using it as a uh as a marker of where the change is.

SPEAKER_01

Literal landmark, literal spiritually and physical as you're as you're guiding yourself. So for you, just that visual reminder has been a huge impact in your life. Yeah. How about you?

SPEAKER_00

It's literally I I think they announced the Gilbert Temple like a year or two after we moved here.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And then, you know, it it obviously it took time to secure everything, build the temple, blah, blah, blah, but our kids participated in the cultural celebration.

SPEAKER_03

I was watching property values, that's where my head went, right?

SPEAKER_00

And and even, you know, yeah, I mean, we've had our son was married there. It yeah, I mean, it's played a huge role in our family. And um what a blessing that it is that easy. I know it's like a tender mercy in my life that it's so close. I mean, uh, you know, the people you're talking about in Africa, it's not going to be that close, I'm sure. Um so yeah, it's a it's a total blessing in our lives. I I I think about like um even like talking with my siblings, I'll be like, oh yeah, when I went to the temple today or blah, blah, blah. And you know, a couple of my siblings don't live very close to temple. So it's like a couple hour drive or whatever. And it's um, I mean, it's it's huge. It plays a huge role. So I can't I can't wait for others to experience that so they can be drawing on that, you know?

SPEAKER_01

I agree. And I and I think I feel uh a bed of responsibility around it too. I think that like for me, one thing that I think is really evident when we started the show in particular, one of the strong impressions I had with Temple Bound was that I was being called so I could interview the amazing people who are living nearby because first of all, they are amazing to begin with, but the temple being nearby really aids in their progression. So it's a matter of like taking what we've been almost like hitting the zip code lottery in that regard of being close to a temple so that we can now broadcast this to people who don't. And it's because the Lord loves all of us the same. And I don't know why He blesses some of us in some ways and challenges us in others, but at the end of the day, it all feels equal because when we went to Africa last time, it was it was a for me, it felt like a sacrifice initially. We were being invited from a guest of Temple Bound to go explore some of these orphanages. Um, and when we went, it was like I was wanting to go, but then there was like the when it actually came to spending the money and going, it was really hard. I was like super busy, I didn't want to take a week off, and it was because it was gonna be a work trip. And you're traveling, and we get there, and I recognized how being able to serve our brothers and sisters who have been blessed and challenged differently. It's not better or worse, it's just different. They healed me. I needed them more than they needed me. They my service, the minuscule service that I provided, the minuscule financial aid that our group

Covenant Path Over Life Timelines

SPEAKER_01

provided was so small compared to the blessings that they gave us by showing us front hand how what a what a consecrated life looks like and what sacrifice and what love looks like and faith in Jesus Christ. And these aren't, in many cases, members of the Church of Jesus Christ, Latter-day Saints. These are these are people that when we see them in the next life, all these wonderful temple blessings are gonna be for their there will be formalities for them.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

All the all these things that they do. So I love that the temple has blessed your lives so much.

SPEAKER_00

Um I love that story because God is in the details, right? Like you you've been prepared and done so many things so that you could do that, and he's been working on you for so long, but he's been working on them for so long. And then he brought your stories together, and it's it's all his plan.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I love it. And I think one thing that you said when I when you said that, I love that because it does make me seem like a good guy, which I and I and I'm decent. I'm decent. I haven't kicked any puppies today. Thank you. I'm working on it. You know, but the thing is the bigger thing for me, and this is true, I think this is going back to the youth and how to teach them, is that like I am selfish by nature in a way that serves me. Meaning, if I can when I started doing all these things, you know, I was like, I wanted more of it for me. I'd love to tell you that it was for my ancestors or whatever, but it's like I wanted the blessings for my my kids. So as you guys are going through that and you're helping this generation, I think that's powerful by showing them the love of Christ. Um, one question that came to mind, kind of another left field, for you guys, when you go to the temple, as you've been going and now preparing, what's something that the temple has taught you uh in the last three years that's maybe a deeper version of something you've already known or maybe something new. Uh while you guys are thinking about it, I I knew you guys would have to think about it, so I'd like to just share one thing just to kind of give an example. I I have such a stronger testimony of the power of womanhood. I have come to respect women at a totally high like I I've always had a great respect. I'm a product of two very strong sisters and a wonderful mother who and sometimes provided for our family when my dad was in between things at times. But like I just I really believe that um the adversaries worked really hard to suppress women specifically. And in the temple we learn how we would none of us would literally be here in every way possible without them. And so that's that's one of my favorite things I've learned. Is there something that you guys have experienced or learned in the temple that's new or deeper?

SPEAKER_00

I'll go first this time. Um I think for me, actually, when we taught that first time and we like started trying and and and talked about symbolism, I was like, whoa, I'm missing a lot of this. I was sort of like it kind of knocked me on my butt. And I was like, wow. So that's really been something that I've been trying to learn more about, and I feel like I have. Um, and particularly symbolism of our savior in the temple.

SPEAKER_01

And um, yeah, I I Is there a symbol that comes to mind that you can think of, or or maybe we can't say? Is there anything that comes to mind offhand?

SPEAKER_00

No, not offhand.

SPEAKER_01

But I appreciate overall the symbolism has just really helped you see the savior.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And just more, and I think part of that also came with uh the changes that they've made through the video and just how much more present Christ is. And um, because I think to your point, you were saying like a lot of times you go and you're kind of thinking about, oh, what am I supposed to be getting out of this and me, me, me a little bit. Like we've already kind of talked a little bit about that, but I find myself drawn more to my savior and um you know, and thinking about him and how to be more like him and um everything that he's done for me, how he can redeem me and enable me, you know.

SPEAKER_03

So that's maybe want to learn Hebrew. That's symbolism. I mean, in some study be like, oh, well the Hebrew root or the Hebrew word, the Latin root, and like, oh my gosh, this is ten layers deeper than my mind could ever go. Right. Um I would yeah, I would love to be a scholar in in Latin and Hebrew languages because I think there's just some amazing things there. But um I I would say my answer to your question, and and it piggybacks a little bit on yours, um, is the access to the priesthood that everybody has. Again, I grew up in a in a in a home, again, very loving father and mother, and my mother always kind of deferred to the priesthood holder, right? Oh, well, he's the pre he's got the priesthood, he knows best, right? And it's very, very traditional that way, and deferred to my dad in in so many ways that way. And and I loved them for that, and we've learned from that. But um boy, like you said, women and then the priesthood, it it it is accessible to all. It is not gender specific, the roles are not outlined, the equality for men. And women and children and angels and everything it's just it's there. Um and that's kind of one thing that I think over the last three years have just really stuck out to me is access to the priesthood, to use it, is not gender specific.

SPEAKER_01

Love that. Okay. Last question before we get to our lightning round questions. Don't be scared by that. The last question I have is what would be one bit of advice that you would give to a newly called temple prep teacher somewhere in the United States or in the world. They just got this calling, they're sitting on it, they're listening to this episode. What would you say is one piece of advice that each of you would give to them so that they could just have a little nugget of something to help them move forward?

SPEAKER_00

Um pray about who you're teaching. I mean, that's kind of a given, right?

SPEAKER_01

But I don't think I don't think we should take that for granted. I love that. Pray about who you're teaching. I love that.

SPEAKER_00

By name. Because I feel like that's truly how um, you know, like some of the kids that we teach, we don't really know, right? But we're we wanna we wanna, you know, we wanna speak to them and teach them and help them. So I think that's a huge one is pray for them.

SPEAKER_03

Um I'm gonna be be creative in your preparation. Be be comfortable getting outside the box a little bit. You've got to meet them where they're at. Um know where the line is, know where the influencers are talking about. Sure. Um and be prepared to combat that with the language and the and the same approach that they're taking. Because again, if we're not teaching them, they're being taught by somebody else. And so um find those influencers. I mean, we stumbled into some amazing podcasts and YouTube channels that are a little edgy from for my upbringing, right?

SPEAKER_01

So they're they're positive. They're positive, they're probably what you would want them to do. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03

They're pushing the envelope and again to each their own, and I don't have to worry about that in my salvation. So but be familiar with them and and and and look at that approach and some of the information that's coming there and what does fit within your style and your comfortability to to teach that. But get creative. You gotta branch away from Solomon's Temple. It's important, and there's a lot of relativity there, but they don't care about Solomon's Temple.

SPEAKER_01

They want to know what they want to know what's in it for them exactly. Like why are they why is this important? You know, I love that. JD, that was so cool. I I will say, as you guys were both talking, I felt this impression of of something I know you guys do organically well, which is just to make a it also really safe. Because when if we're if we do research people and we're learning about these influencers, I think it'd be really good to go, yeah, if you ever hear anyone talk about us being a cult, let's talk about it. Yeah. You know, maybe we maybe I will tell you in sales when you're selling somebody on a service or product, one of the things they teach us is the importance of bringing up the concerns and conflicts before they do. By bringing them up, we gain trust. Yeah because we're like, now listen, you might be thinking if you buy this product, it's because we're da-da-da-da-da. It's like, wow, I did think that. And then you answer it. And so maybe there's something to be said about, like you said, being aware of what's out there, bringing it up in advance.

SPEAKER_03

It's a it's a fine line because you also don't want to bring all those things up to the I think we led with uh right when we right when we started this class, the big hubbub of secret lives for Mormon Wiss was everything, right? And their tagline was leave the garments at home.

SPEAKER_01

No, it wasn't.

SPEAKER_03

We opened it. I mean, that's it. I did not know that. That's a great thing, guys. It's all over NBC, CBS, whatever the whoever's carrying that, that was their tagline. Leave the garments at home. I'm like, that's where we met them because we knew that's what you were seeing and hearing. And did they?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Some of them didn't. Some of the boys didn't, but all the girls did. Yeah, I think so. But I think that's really key, right? That comfort space. Like JD literally said, okay, we've been talking about all this here for 45 minutes in our house. You're gonna go home and your phone just listened to you, and you're gonna start getting stuff pushed to you about this. And he's like, come back, let's talk about what you see and what you hear, you know. And we did. They they came with some questions the next week, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Have you ever had people bring really controversial topics up at all or concerns? No.

SPEAKER_03

No, I guess they're just a mind, but yeah, they're conscious of their environment and their peers that are with them as well. Um but hopefully they would fill the trust is there if something was really good, they'd come to us or a parent or a lot of people. Yeah, nothing else.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, hopefully they could go, yeah, to parents or maybe their young men leader and be like, hey, we talked about this in temple prep and I saw this. What do you think?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think when I say controversial too, I think of it as the things that are taken from a misguided light that twist it into controversy. Because when you're taught when you're taught it line upon line with light, it's just it's almost in it's I mean, it's cool, but it's almost boring in the sense that it's like it's just makes sense. It's more of the same. Yeah. It's all the things that we we learn in primary just at a much more advanced level. Um okay, guys, this has been such a fun

Advice For Teachers And Closing

SPEAKER_01

top topic to talk about with you guys. I'm so grateful for this discussion. I'd like to wrap things up with a rapid-fire question. Um so we'll start with Kendra and go to JD and go back and forth. So the really easy questions. Favorite temple?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, Gilbert for me.

SPEAKER_01

Yep.

SPEAKER_00

Followed closely by Salt Lake. That's where we were that's where we were married.

SPEAKER_01

That's where Heather and I were married, too.

SPEAKER_03

I would say Salt Lake City, again, being born and raised there in the valley. Um, yeah, born and raised in Sandy. But uh I I'm absolutely amazed at the reconstruction project that's gone on. The things that they've done there, that temple is miraculous. And so I'm so excited to go back and and uh do the open house and see that.

SPEAKER_01

My favorite thing that they're doing at the Salt Lake Temple is they're building out a celestial room that you can just go in any time of the year in the visitor center. How cool is that? Yeah, I love cool. We're just demystifying. What did you say, JD, at the beginning of this? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Taking away the secretness and adding the sacredness.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I think that's gonna be the title of the episode. Um we'll start with JD. Where's somewhere in the world that you've been that you've loved, or somewhere you want to go?

SPEAKER_03

Uh Thailand. I'd love to been to Thailand. Would love to take Kendra back to Thailand and just less work, more pleasure trip when we go next time.

SPEAKER_01

Love it. What about you, Kendra?

SPEAKER_00

Um place I've been or someplace. Sorry, what do you think?

SPEAKER_01

Okay, so where's somewhere you've been in the world that you just love? You know me, I mean to travel, so I build this in for my interest. And then the other thing is or somewhere you haven't been that you'd love to go sometime.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, I super want to go to Banff.

SPEAKER_01

Banff.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. We've talked about we JD just sent me some some reels on this. I really want to go there and check it out. Love it. See it, go hiking. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I've wanted to go there too, and it's so close, I'm actually irritated I haven't done it. I know. Um right. So starting with Kendra this time. Who is someone we're thinking now about the family history side of this. So looking at your family lineage, you know, it can be a parent. I'm looking for like a leader, you know, some a parent, grandparent, someone living or deceased. Who is someone who's impacted your life and why?

SPEAKER_00

Oh wow. Um I think for me it's my sister. Um I'm I'm the youngest by far, and I only have one sister, and we're 14 years apart. But I've just always looked up to her. I looked up to her, you know, as a mom, as a grandma now. Um I've just always looked up to her.

SPEAKER_01

She sounds like a maternal figure and a best friend.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I mean my mom's great too. Uh but it just, you know what I mean. Who was the first one that came to mind? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And what's her name?

SPEAKER_00

Terry.

SPEAKER_01

Oh man. Okay, very good. What about you, JD?

SPEAKER_03

Um in the context that you asked, I I would say my grandma Vita, only because she I watched her do what we call our book of remembrances. Yes, I remember those. Yeah. So I mean, I'm a child of the product of the 70s, and my grandma at age of eight gave me a book of remembrance and continued to build on it. So I have all my history and the photos and the my lineage and stuff. I always said I don't have to do any temple work because she did it all. We've learned that's not really the case. There's still plenty to be done. But I love looking through my my book of remembrance, and that was given to me by my by my mom's mom, uh, Vita Didrickson, and she's kind of been um a stalwart, you know, she's passed many years ago. But uh I watched her go to the temple as a kid and and uh you know she's been influential that way.

SPEAKER_01

I love that. You said you prefaced that by the context in which I asked the question. Did you have somebody else come to mind?

SPEAKER_03

No, only the fact that you know she mentioned her sister, and I thought, oh yeah, there's plenty of people in my life, but again, my mind immediately went to to grandma Vita.

SPEAKER_01

Love it. So the last question, and this is everyone always the last question, this is gonna be out there for your grandkids, great grandkids, and descendants you don't even know. What would you want to want them to know? Speaking directly to them, what would you want them to know about your love for the temple? And any one of you can go first.

SPEAKER_03

Um I I I i to me it's it's the primary answer. Um we we know that it is there that you take the the final required covenant to return to God's presence. Um and while that might not be exactly how it happens in our timeline here, whether it's here or in the afterlife, um a marriage covenant um ultimately is gonna be required to to see him. And uh to me that's what it stands for. It's it's a daily reminder of the covenant I've made with my wife that nothing in this world is worth breaking.

SPEAKER_01

I love that answer. What about you, Kendra?

SPEAKER_00

Um I think what I would share is that I love the temple. I go there when I'm happy, I go there when I'm sad, when I'm questioning, when I'm hurting, when I'm confused, what whatever, right? Times of joy, times of hard. And um that's what our Heavenly Father wants us to do. He wants us to go there and seek him for that peace and for that um relationship to strengthen it. And I'm really grateful that we did land in the zip code we did, and that we are as close as we are to the temple.

SPEAKER_01

Man, that really hit me. I started uh choking up there. Well, guys, thank you so much. This has been such a special conversation and and and for all of you who tuned into Temple Bound, thank you so much for tuning in. This has been a wonderful episode. So as we sign off, please remember that the most important thing to know of all time is that you are loved because you exist, because you are the saviors. So keep going, keep fighting, and never give up. Until next time. July is missionary month on Temple Bound. Think of one person who needs this: a missionary in the field, someone packing for the MTC, or a parent watching their child get ready to go or come home. Go ahead and send them this episode, because one listener, one sharer, one missionary drawn is a little bit closer to Christ. Temple Bound is brought to you by the Light on a Hill Foundation, a nonprofit aimed at building and strengthening families across the globe. Produced by Heather Humphreys, with show notes and social media managed by Isabel Dizon and Kimberly Simbafon. Wardrobe by Anne Collar. These views and opinions expressed by the host and guests are on their own and do not necessarily reflect those of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints. Thank you for joining us today as we continue learning, growing, and striving to bind our lives closer to Savior. Until next time.

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Will Humphreys

Host