How the Temple Helps Missionaries Endure with Mission President Denny Barney

Denny Barney recently completed his service as a mission president in the Iowa Iowa City Mission alongside his wife Nichole. In this episode of Temple Bound, host Will Humphreys sits down with Denny during Missionary Month to talk about what it actually takes to endure a mission, and what enduring is supposed to mean in the first place.

What you will learn in this episode: 

• Why "show up, choose faith, trust the process" works as a daily framework for hard things, not just missionary work. 
• The difference between acting charitable and becoming charitable, and why that distinction changes everything about spiritual growth. 
• Why missionary purpose has to become personal, not just memorized. 
• How ancient temple worship in places like Egypt and Guatemala connects to the pattern used in temples today. 
• What Elder Bednar means when he says charity should possess us. 
• How to talk with a missionary preparing to leave, or a child who has chosen a different path, without losing connection. 
• Why the atonement of Jesus Christ is bigger than fixing sin, and how it applies to everything that feels unfair in life. 

Denny also shares a personal story from a recent family trip to Egypt, where standing at the base of the pyramids and inside the Karnak temple gave him a new appreciation for how deeply rooted temple worship is in human history, long before the Restoration.

This episode is built for anyone connected to missionary service right now: a missionary in the field, a missionary preparing to leave, a missionary just home and figuring out life, or a parent walking alongside any of them.

Transcript

Missionary Month And Who This Helps

SPEAKER_00 0:05

July is missionary month here on Temple Bound. So whether you have a missionary leaving or coming home or somewhere in the middle, you don't want to miss these powerful episodes geared to help each of you in this process draw closer to Christ as you make these changes, all of it through the lens of the temple. If you've got a missionary in the field, one about to leave, or one home figuring life out, this one's for you. Recently, returned mission president Denny Barney shares the mantra that carried his missionaries through the hardest days. Show up, choose faith, trust the process. We get into why enduring was never meant to feel like white knuckling it and how the savior makes what's unfair right.

A Mission President Returns Home

SPEAKER_00 0:44

Well, Danny, thank you so much for being on Temple Bound. Uh and and being, you know, you're you're back from your mission as mission presidents. Tell us a little bit about that. Set the table of of your recent church service.

SPEAKER_02 0:55

Well, thank you. It's uh it's good to be back. Uh, we've been back now not quite a year. We finished our service in June of last year at the end of the month, and and we loved it. We loved our time there when we received a call to serve as mission leaders. Of course, we were surprised and overwhelmed and excited, all the feelings that you would expect. And then a few weeks later got our assignment to go to Iowa and um didn't have a lot of experience there. And you just go and you show up in the way that the Lord wants you to, and and then he takes care of it. And it was a wonderful experience. Hard. It was challenging for us, it's challenging for the young missionaries, for the senior missionaries, for the, you know, whether you're a teaching missionary, service missionary, it is hard work, but it is a beautiful work, and to be part of that was truly a blessing for Nicole and I.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

You know, it's anything worthwhile is hard, it feels what can you just because as someone who's never been a mission president, what are would you say are some of the challenges that are that are inherent with pretty much anyone who serves? I'm sure everyone has their unique challenges, but what would you say as challenging about as a mission leader?

SPEAKER_02 1:57

So, you know, frankly, every mission is different. Every mission has unique complexities and challenges that are associated with it, and and there's no two missions around the world that are the same. You know, you would you would think, well, we're here in the U.S. and it's certainly there's advantages and creature comforts, and Amazon can get to the missionaries, or you know, we have comforts that maybe that uh people don't have in other parts of the world. But what's uniform is the constancy of the work. Whether you're a mission leader or a young missionary teaching or service, whether you're a senior mission, there's a constancy that you feel because you're set apart and ordained to the ministry to feel that. And so that there's power in that, but there's also a weight that you might expect comes with that responsibility that you've been given to share a witness of the Savior. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_00 2:49

So that's the challenge, is that you understand how special this is. Yes. And being imperfect as we are, there's this faith that's required to order to become and change our who we are in a way to become more powerful through the Savior in the happiness. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 3:05

And and really the singular purpose is to turn people to the Savior. We we don't replace the Savior, we don't work out our salvation, but we find it in and through Him and because of His grace. And so the effort of turning people to the Savior is it's beautiful, but it's it's it's different for everybody. And so there's a complexity to it, and certainly as everybody knows that served, there's a lot of rejection. We live in a world that's got a lot of nice people, and maybe some that aren't as nice, and some that maybe don't appreciate the message that we're bringing. But in the end, as we really dig in and understand the power of the message, and I think that's the the most important thing that we can do as mission leaders, or those that are preparing to go on missions, is to say, what can I do to really understand what my missionary purpose? There's a purpose statement that we have, but what does that really mean to me and how does that uh apply in my life and how does that affect the way that I'm going to show up

Purpose And The Temple Connection

SPEAKER_02 4:03

as a missionary?

SPEAKER_00 4:03

Trevor Burrus, Jr. So you're saying it's incredibly important for a missionary going on their mission or a missionary who's serving a mission and maybe even coming home from their mission to really get clear on their purpose? Aaron Ross Powell Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 4:14

And I think that's where as we look at the nexus between missionary service, whether you're preparing to go, whether you're serving, whether you have returned, and now you're trying to figure out life, the temple is so powerful because it provides a connection to the Savior through ordinances, through things that we participate in there. It provides perspective, but it also drives purpose. And so, you know, as we really kind of think about temple bound and what that means, well, we're all more importantly, we're heaven-bound. And the temple is just one of the beautiful gifts that Heavenly Father has given us with the ordinances and the covenants that are there to help us return to Him.

SPEAKER_00 4:56

Yeah, it's amazing because when we when we look at different aspects of mortality in the business world, for example, they're starting to recognize the power of any organization having a defined and clear purpose has everything to do with how people will internalize and choose to show up around it. And so for us as you know, eternal beings having a mortal experience, recognizing our eternal purpose is feels like it's a foundational connector to all those different phases that you just went through. How did your purpose evolve? Did your purpose evolve? I'm guessing let me ask that. Did your personal purpose become more clear or evolve? Or how did your purpose, did you lean on your purpose during your mission? How did your purpose show up in your mission for yourself?

SPEAKER_02 5:39

Well, as you would expect, anybody jumping into a new experience, a new endeavor, there's a lot to learn. There's a learning curve. Some things have more of a learning curve, some things have less of a learning curve. There's quite a learning curve to being a missionary wherever you fit in that experience. So as mission leaders, there was a learning curve. And so we had to really figure out what are the most important things. And you can chase a lot of shiny objects, you can be distracted. You know, we would say often to the missionaries, focus is fragile. Focus on the most important thing. And if what you're doing, if this behavior, this activity, this action, this idea, this thought isn't somehow building your faith in Jesus Christ or connecting others to the Savior, is it worth it? And so so I think there's a there's in the process of learning into that, um, that that that's an experience. Now, did we master it? No. Uh we're I love your I love you use the phrase eternal beings have an immortal experience. We would use that and talk about missionaries about the context of how we really fit in this fabulous plan that Heavenly Father has for us.

Show Up Choose Faith Trust

SPEAKER_02 6:50

But we're imperfect. We're we're mortal beings. We're just trying to figure it out. And so ultimately, what we would really focus on for the missionaries, and and and we would have to turn it back on ourselves sometimes. We kind of created this little mantra that was simply show up, choose faith, trust the process. Show up today. As a missionary, that means get out of bed on time at 6:30. You know what? You may you may be tired, you may have a headache, you may not be like enthused about it, but if you're willing to get up and stick with the program, it's amazing what Heavenly Father can do with willingness. So show up. Now, every day is a is an exercise of am I going to choose faith today? You're on a mission. Now, the world will tell you that faith is this construct that doesn't make sense, or you're a Pollyanna because you can believe in those things. Well, in reality, faith is the anchor of hope. And if we don't have hope in something bigger than who we are and where we are, what's it all about? And so faith is just a decision every day. So show up, choose faith. And if you can do one and two, really you have to trust the Heavenly Father is going to put out on the other side of your effort, your willingness, your day that you've given to Him something better than what you could have done on your own.

SPEAKER_00 8:06

Yes. And I think that's where that validation of the faith, the trial, you know, that faith after the trial of faith that occurs so that people build their testimonies.

Distraction And Going All In

SPEAKER_00 8:15

So what are the things that you would say that you experience with missionaries that got in the way? Like how how did the adversary try to distract missionaries from their purpose?

SPEAKER_02 8:26

Aaron Ross Powell Well, um he's crafty. Old Scratch has a uh a huge bag of tricks. Um we live in a world that is very connected. And um that's beautiful that we can connect and have experiences, that we can have podcasts and technology that can bring us together. Social media is a beautiful connecting tool, but it also can be terribly distracting. So you have missionaries, and the missionaries that are serving now, these are digital natives. They've had in their hands for most of their lives some type of device that is releasing dopamine in their brain and activating their hands and their mind in a way, and social media plays into that. And so they get out there and the biggest tool that the adversary can use is distracting us away from better things, a higher purpose. And so in the end, I think where a lot of missionaries have to learn early on is do I want to be an awkward version of my home self and a mediocre version of my missionary self, kind of with a leg stuck in each world, or do I want to just say, look, I've made this decision to be here. The first person to recommend you for a mission is you, yourself. Interesting. You present yourself to a priesthood leader and says, Hey, I would love the opportunity to go serve in this way. Now it doesn't matter what funnel got you there. It might be that you live in a culture of or a system where you've got people around you or friends, or your grandma really wants you to go, or your parents, or whatever. But ultimately, what gets you on your mission in many cases is not enough to keep you on your mission. You have to, you have to pivot from that and really dig into that purpose identity of why am I really here and why is this service that I'm offering to the Lord helping me build my faith and connect me more to Him in the process of helping others find Him as well.

SPEAKER_00 10:23

Got it. So it's interesting to think about that. You basically said to me that when someone's serving a mission, the thing that would distract them from their purpose is this idea of going all in, is how I heard that.

SPEAKER_02 10:34

This fear, I'm gonna lose my identity. I if you know, I can't be I can't be a good missionary if I lose the identity of who I was before my mission. And that that's not a suggestion that you stop being Will Humphreys or Danny Barney. It's the idea that you become, in this season, a better version of that because you've been set apart and ordained to the ministry with power and purpose to do something bigger. And so it's it the process of just figuring out that out early in your mission is it really defines when success starts to happen. Some missionaries come already dialed into that. Other missionaries take time to learn that and understand that. And it's hard to let go of important things, things that you've set aside that you've stepped away from by your own choice. But as you do that, the the ability to really dig into the missionary purpose and understand how that can drive behaviors and outcomes, that's what's really special to witness as a mission leader. When you see missionaries on this continuum that are making decisions that are changing their trajectory and allowing themselves to truly be an instrument in the Lord's hands, that is the most beautiful thing to witness.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

Yeah, and it's so powerful. I have a missionary who's coming home in two months who, before he left, his biggest thing was I don't want to lose my personality. And I think that sometimes people will, young men and women will look at when people are going on missions and they can kind of sense there's a commonality there, and they they're worried about losing themselves. And what I what I remember seeing in my son, now that we've talked, is that he is he's still he's still Alex in his in his I hope so. Alex is Alex is as Alex as it can get his his his emails are very much in the same tone, but what he talks about, even though he's using terminology in his generation that sometimes I can't understand. But he talks about things in a way to where you can see that the biggest transformation has just been his love and compassion for others and his connection to the savior. That's that's the that's the change I think that that we're you're seeing. And I'm sure you saw that over and over again.

SPEAKER_02 12:36

And that I think that creates a great connection to the talk, the conference talk that we were going to touch on today.

Enduring Without White Knuckling

SPEAKER_02 12:42

Please. Uh the the talk that uh that we had on our agenda was all who have endured valiantly by Elder David A. Bednar. And I know that um it's a familiar message, um, but as I had a chance to kind of go through it again, my wife and I just went through it uh a couple weeks ago together, and and every time I go through it, I pick up something different. But at the heart of this talk is this idea that enduring isn't just holding on and gritting our teeth. Serving a mission isn't just marking time, getting to the end of 18 or 24 months. It's this process of becoming somebody different, better. Not losing Alex, not losing his identity, but actually becoming a better, more refined version of Alex in the eternal scheme of what Heavenly Father sees. And so what I loved about this talk and then in the connection to missionaries or even the connection to the temple is this idea that charity is the pure love of Christ. And if we are trying, sometimes it's hard to say, how do I embody in in preach my gospel, there's a whole chapter on the attributes of Jesus Christ. It's a beautiful chapter. Um and we study those as missionaries, we try to make sense of those, but then we get in real life and we say, well, what do I really do? How do I take that and how do I apply that? What Elder Bednar did for us here is he said, Look, there's the there's there's enduring, but there's enduring with the purpose, and the purpose is to become more like the Savior. And the way that we do that is to have more charity. Not charitable actions or behaviors, but becoming more charitable in our hearts. So what is what's the difference? Well, the difference is uh I mean, I can act nice because I think, you know, I want to I want to type, I want to role play or type play this type of behavior. I've seen people that I admire. You know, I've my dad was a great example of charity. He didn't care who you were, he was nice to everybody. So I can say, I can try to emulate that behavior. That's good, because it's a good manifestation of a desire. But acting a certain way is different than actually feeling it deep in your heart. And there's a process that allows us to go from we all have to start somewhere. We all have to start a process. So Elder Bednar is inviting us to consider this process of enduring isn't just holding on, it's this process of becoming, and the temple is so profoundly important in that because it gives us the ability to feel connected to the Savior, to have the perspectives of this eternal plan, to really understand the purpose of why some of these things are going on or this experience that we're having in mortality. And so to me, I love I that's what I really loved about this talk. He talks about, you know, it talks about in 2 Corinthians and a Mosiah becoming a new creature in Christ. Well, becoming a new creature is not just acting a certain way, even though that's a great start, acting like a missionary is a great start, but becoming really purpose-driven because of your connection to the Savior, that's when you become effective. It's the same thing in our non-missionary lives. And so the temple to me, as we're on this temple-bound podcast, it's it goes through, it goes through all of those strands because of the ability to keep us grounded and anchored in Heavenly Father's plan that is so much bigger than any one of us.

SPEAKER_00 16:12

I love that answer. And I think the temple gives us that perspective of the end in mind, you know, the idea of where we're going as we become new creatures. I'm guessing as a mission president, you saw that it happened in numerous times where someone would show up in the mission a certain way, and when they left, you could I'm I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but I'm looking for can you share an example of anyone that you saw that started a certain way and at the end is an embodiment of what we just talked about?

SPEAKER_02 16:36

Over and over and over again we saw that. That was the very best part about serving. That is the best part. That is the best part. Why is that? Because you're you're you're actually seeing the work of the Savior in the hearts of the people, changing not just behavior, but eternal beings becoming different, new creatures in Him. Yes, imperfect as we all are. Yes. But becoming different, and that's and that's the process. And it's beauti I I picture myself as a young 19-year-old missionary showing up in Japan. And I think, man, I was a mess. I mean, I was there, that's wonderful. And we would tell the missionaries all the time, we are so grateful you're here. Of all the places you could be, you chose to be here. Now, how do we help you make the best of and honor the decision that you made? And that's the process of becoming and watching that. And and look, we're all different. Some missionaries would take a little bit longer because they needed a little more time, a little more refinement. Um but I can tell you that if if Nicole was sitting here with me, over and over we witnessed that, and that was the very best part about serving is seeing these missionaries become somebody different because of the Savior and their willingness to connect to Him.

SPEAKER_00 17:56

Amazing. And charity, like you say, and is a big part of this talk, is one of the most powerful tools you're saying is in that becoming of a new creature. Um what else in that talk spoke to you?

SPEAKER_02 18:06

Oh, there you know, there was a lot that I loved. Um you know, one thing that jumped out to me, and this kind of summarizes that point. Um we had Elder Cook came and visited our mission, and um and we loved, of course, having an apostle there. He's he's very involved in the missionary work and very uh focused on helping inspire the missionaries, and so uh just as an ordained minister as an apostle, he just he knows exactly what to say. But when we when he was with us, he said, I'm gonna give you some neon sign principles, he called it. And some of the young missionaries are like, What's a neon sign? You know, like we we don't have those. But so he called them these neon sign principles. And so one of the neon sign principles of Elder Bednar's talk comes uh under the heading of higher and holier. And it's and he said this charity encompasses both what we do and what we can become as the spiritual gift ultimately possess possesses us. So that's the difference between acting and behavior, outward manifestations, and the inward transformation that the Savior can bring as we truly seek to understand what charity, the pure love of Christ, means in our own lives. He goes on to say, but at a higher and even holier level, charity is the very essence of the end toward which we are enduring. It's the essence of the end toward which we are enduring. So it's not that we're enduring just to get to the end. That we we we yes, we need to get to the end. Right. But if we just get to the end and we haven't been transformed through the Savior in the process, then we've missed out on the very purpose of why we're here. So the essence of it is getting to the end and becoming somebody different, and charity is the manifestation of that, the charity that we feel in our heart, not our behavior. So I don't know if that makes sense. It does.

SPEAKER_00 20:05

I'm hearing it so differently because enduring to the end, without really getting into it, always kind of just felt like white-knuckling it. Okay, you've done these things, and now you're enduring, meaning hold your breath.

SPEAKER_01 20:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:15

Don't make a second, don't make up any more, don't make any mistakes. But what we're saying here is that it's in the process of enduring, and enduring implies challenge. You said at the beginning, the mission was was fraught with challenge and blessing. It's through the difficult, that's what it's what I'm hearing, is that the enduring is is staying constant in our imperfect way through these painful, changing experiences, mortality, and it's staying consistent with that vision and enduring, that the big ultimate change of endurance is to become love. Which is what charity is, the pure love of charity. Charity is the pure love of charity. So we become a manifestation of charity.

SPEAKER_02 20:52

Not just acting charitable, but becoming charitable. When he talks about having charity possess us, that that's what he's referring to. In fact, he he does a little wordplay, he focuses on uh that uh uh he says, Whoso is found possessing of the spiritual gift of charity at the last day, it shall be well with him. He goes, and then Elder Bednar goes on to say, note the double meaning of the word of in this verse. We can possess charity, but ultimately charity should possess us. He's trying to take us to a place beyond just going through the actions. We again we have to endure, we have to get to the end. But enduring doesn't imply this horrible thing. It should be joyful, it should be transformative, it should be refining. Yes, it's gonna be hard, but in the process of trying to keep the Savior in the center of it and trying to say, How can I be more charitable in my heart? Not just not just my outward behaviors, but in my heart. That process of allowing charity to possess us then helps us become charity.

SPEAKER_00 22:01

Who we need to become as we prepare to return to live with our Heavenly Father.

Meaning In Suffering Through Charity

SPEAKER_00 22:06

So beautiful. I had a very strong memory as you were talking about a correlation of this idea called purpose that we started with and charity and enduring. Victor Frankel wrote a book called Man's Search for Meaning, where he talked about his experience in a concentration camp in Germany. And he studied so you know this where I'm going, he he studied the people who survived and even thrived in the midst of can only be described as hell.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

Yeah. Horrific.

SPEAKER_00 22:35

Horrific. And what he saw was that there were people who found meaning in the suffering. They found meaning in the in the trials that they're going through. And I remember, not just my mission, but various times in my life where there was great suffering. And in that suffering, when I was successfully able to anchor my heart to the Savior and give it that meaning, the purpose, like something else was evolving from this. That was those were the times in my life where I remember feeling the Lord with me. And so when you think about charity, it's it's an interesting thing because in the temple, it feels like all five covenants, that's all we're doing. Is that the simplest way to describe them in my mind is that in those five covenants is we're just going from a place of selfishness to ultimately charitable thinking and being, because we're giving all that we are to something other than ourselves by the end. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_02 23:28

And the covenants are leading us to the place that we want to be.

unknown 23:32

Right.

SPEAKER_02 23:32

Oftentimes when we make the covenants, are we there? Are we really, as an 18 or 19-year-old young person that's sitting in the temple receiving their own endowment, truly understand the significance of the law of consecration? No, but there's a course that's set before us with the Savior at the center that's saying, here's where we're, here's where this process of transformation with the Savior at the center of it in this beautiful plan is going to take you as you become the person that you need to become. And I think that's what I loved about Elder Bednar's message. Now, you talk about Victor Frankel in that horrible, horrible environment. If the people, the people that found glimpses of joy in that space, found it not because their circumstances were different than other people. They all lived in the same terrible circumstance. But they found joy and connection and purpose because they were serving other people, which is a manifestation of charity. But at some point for that to continue over time, like he mentions in the book, it had to it had to be rooted in something more than just I'm trying to be nice because I want people to think that I'm nice. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_00 24:44

Right. If I'm being nice be because I want to survive, that wouldn't have that wouldn't have worked. Because that's not who he was being how he was acting. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_02 24:53

Yes. And eventually for it to be sustainable, it has to become part of who we are. And I think, again, that's the purpose that Elder Bednar is trying to have us consider. I think, again, everybody could read it and get a different message. He's so brilliant that he probably has lots of layers in there, and I and I only got the kindergarten level. But where the temple fits into this is this idea, this perspective wrapped in purpose that says there's more to just endurney. There's this beautiful plan that I have that's going to lead you back to me. For behold, this is my work and my glory to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. The resurrection is a twinkling of an eye, it happens. But the spiritual transformation is over more than just mortality, we know. And so finding and anchoring into the principles that are going to help us become who we want to become so that we can feel comfortable in the presence of Heavenly Father. That's what it's all about.

Ancient Temples And Thinning The Veil

SPEAKER_02 25:58

Can I take us down one little tiny rapid point? I would love it if you didn't. Nicole and I uh we just last month we took our kids on a trip. We had planned to go to Israel and Jordan, and then we added on Egypt because we thought we want to go see the these pyramids. You know, you've seen them your whole life, and you write a report on on the Pharaoh in the third grade, and you think, I know this. Yeah. Well, we ended up canceling Israel and Jordan just because of the unrest. And so, but we kept the Egypt portion of our trip. And um and we had the most uh uh incredible experience. I will tell you just on on the side, standing at the base of these pyramids and thinking, how in the world did this happen? Right. You know, how did they do this? Seriously it absolutely and again we've all seen pictures, but to stand there, it I I don't I don't think that I've like that many times in my life I've been like like awe-inspired. I was like literally just like wow. But it's so much deeper than that. It's this idea that they went to such great lengths to manifest their desire to be with God. So every one of these pyramids has um a pyramid temple, a giant causeway that went down to the where they would bring all the stones up, and then they would have the valley temple, and then they would have these other in a different part. They, you know, have Karnak and Luxorware, they have these other temples. All of these things, like our temples, were simply designed. Well, I shouldn't say simply, because they're not simple, they're magnificent. But they're designed to connect people through movement and activities to symbolize and prepare this transition from where you are as a mortal being to a place that allows you to become like God. So we went to this uh Karnak temple in Karnak. It's probably familiar to some of your listeners, but um we went around and saw this beautiful visualization in hieroglyphs of this process that was represented with a with a washing and anointing and clothing, all in preparation for symbolizing these movements, these actions that would happen. You know, there's pictures and then the hieroglyphics that actually speak to what's going on. Right. So I'm not I don't have to make it up, it's all there. Sure. And it's been there for 4,500 years. But I love the the this in the stone, embedded deep there, this idea that that we all have a yearning to return to live with Heavenly Father. The temples, our temples are simply there to help us in that process of becoming and making our way back to Him. So to end kind of that that line of conversation, you know, I thought, well, obviously they didn't have the priesthood. Right. So what does this mean? Where did they get it? They didn't just make it up, they got it from somewhere. And we're and so, you know, did it come from Adam in the garden when he, you know, when he was trying to connect with Heavenly Father and receive information and knowledge and understanding, hey, you know, we're here I am, this veil that's separating me and Heavenly Father, you know, if at times it gets thicker because of things that we do or circumstances in our life, right? The temple in modern day and latter in the latter days, or then is simply intended to thin the veil so that we can feel closer to God, closer to Heavenly Father. And I love that you even in our modern day worship in the temples, we have things that go way back to then and and are grounded even before then. And I think there's power in that as we look at this process of becoming it's not a new idea.

SPEAKER_00 30:02

No, it's interesting because one of the greatest things I've learned over this hosting the show is understanding how anciently rooted our modern-day worship, temple worship goes. I've um recent uh you know, as I'm right working with AI to help me create different show notes and different things, at one time just asked me, he's like, would you like to learn a little bit about the connection between uh modern-day temples and temples across various periods of time and and different religions? And I said, sure. And it was interesting because it talks a lot about how there's almost always this theme in any temple worship of any period of time of becoming different. It's starting in one physical. It's a transition, starting in one physical location and ending in another because we are mortal beings. So I think that we can relate to the reality of a physical movement easier than it is for us to become internally a different being. But that's what it's about is that transformation over time. And these these concepts, the more I get aware of what we're doing in the temples, and I'm barely scratching the surface, but every scratch reveals Old Testament wrapping paper, as Mark Matthew says, where you start recognizing how these things go all the way back to the garden, how the garden was the first temple, and how this becomes the beginning of our becoming, in this case, charitable, which is another way of saying becoming like our Savior Jesus Christ. The pure love of Christ. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:24

But I love that because in our in our modern-day worship, there's things that would that might feel incongruent with what the world is doing. Sure. But when you look at the where it's anchored, where it's rooted, the movements are all symbolizing or or witnessing feelings or desires of the heart of the person that's going through these different, this different process of transition. And you see that symbolically and figuratively represented in Karnak and in other places. But we also see it in our own temples. And so those not of our faith or those that don't understand, that would say, well, that's based on Masonic rituals. Oh, sure. Where did they get it from? Well, uh we know where they got it from. Right. And I served my mission in Japan, as I mentioned earlier, and I remember walking into this ancient temple and seeing things that that I had experienced in our temple.

SPEAKER_00 32:19

Yes. To correlate with that, I served in Guatemala, and so my area was San Benito, which is where that that very famous ruins uh Tical is located. And I love all the ruins, and I've been to almost all of them in Mexico and in Central America, but there's nothing like Tical. It's this massive city. And in there, they've pulled out these artifacts of statues and things, and you see some of the things that we do in our temples in those places. And not that that we look to that as proof on any level, but more as a um connection to that. This has been Heavenly Father's pattern over time, and that these things represent the becoming more of our like our Savior Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_02 32:57

I love I love that it's a it's a practice that Heavenly Father has given to his children on the earth to formalize through ritual, which can feel which can seem different because uh in many aspects of our life we don't have that. In reality, we have it more than we realize in other aspects. You know, the ritual of taking the oath to, you know, to be a witness in a trial or in elected office or a uh first responder. There's a lot of things.

SPEAKER_00 33:26

Seniors who are graduating, I remember one person who was a guest on the show said, think about if we all showed up and we came from a different planet and we showed up and watched the high school graduation rituals. Why are they wearing those robes and they're moving their tassels and throwing their hats and like it's all this formality, but these are the things that we that we are doing, and just they have different meaning because of the sacredness of it. Yeah. I love that. Yeah, so tell me more about this talk and what landed for you.

SPEAKER_02 33:49

Well, I uh again, I think that what landed for me and it and it was it was really uh if again my wife Nicole was here. It's fun that we both said, let's study this talk and then let's come together and talk about it. And we brought different things. So in my notes, I have feelings and things that she had or impressions that she had. And I love that the spirit teaches us all differently. But for me and for her, as we really coalesced around what was the neon sign message that that the spirit was directing us to receive, it was simply this idea that enduring is more than just holding on, that becoming is the purpose, and if we seek clarity or actionable ideas on what that can be, that's this idea of becoming more charitable, not just in our behavior, but in our hearts. And in the process of doing that, we open ourselves to be more receptive to receiving the gift that the Savior so freely offers, which is his infinite grace that will heal and perfect imperfect

How Parents Can Prepare Missionaries

SPEAKER_02 34:51

people?

SPEAKER_00 34:51

So let me ask you this then. Now let's look at parents and missionaries who have their calls, who are preparing to go serve a mission, like the parents are helping their child prepare for a mission, or their young adults, excuse me, or their young adults. If purpose is so important and charity is such a big part of this journey, what thoughts do you have? What would you say to those people in terms of how to prepare for this mission in this becoming and clarity of purpose?

SPEAKER_02 35:19

Oh, that's such a great question, Will. Thank you for asking it. I've I've thought about that. I think it's easy as parents to be Pharisaical. Modern day Pharisees. Totally. I totally for me I totally get related to that. It's easy to put our kids in the same rut. I'll use that description. You gotta do this and do this and do this, and here's your checklist. I think if I were if I could wind back the clock. Yeah. And um as I was preparing our children, our you know, children to go on missions. You know, I think we did a lot of things. We did our best. Were we perfect? No. Um but we did our best. But some of the best preparation is the informal preparation, just things that you build into your process of how you create experiences to to be in the scriptures, to talk about gospel-related ideas, to have meaningful conversations, to put the phones down. I think that's really important. But I think the the formal preparation, if I use the word formal, is the informal process of turning the hearts of our children to the Savior. Saying, look, we live in a world that's going to try to distract us away from Him. Yes. He's the center of the plan. There's this great picture that you won't see on the podcast, but in Preach My Gospel on page 49, I'll turn, I'll have you go there if you have an interest. But it's a beautiful picture that describes the plan of salvation. And if you could see the visual, which you can't if you're listening, but you've got the different elements of the plan of salvation: premoral life, earth life, spirit world, the kingdoms of glory, and things that happen in between these. Yes, we're gonna we're gonna be born and we're gonna die. Spoiler alert. That's the plan.

SPEAKER_01 37:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:19

But through all of that, this fabulous plan, through every piece of it, there's the Savior.

unknown 37:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:28

Doing his part, showing up because he promised that he would. I think about, I can't possibly imagine what it would have been like for him to know what he was going to experience in the garden. Sure. And yet choosing to walk in and to do what he was foreordained to do, choosing to do it for us, in that same way, he shows up in every facet of Heavenly Father's plan. And if we can help our missionaries, our children, whether they're going to serve missions or not, you know, our children are gonna take different paths. Some are gonna be mission-bound, some are gonna be temple-bound, some are gonna have to take a long ways around, and and they're gonna get back. Heavenly Father's never gonna give up on them, and we won't either.

SPEAKER_00 38:16

But the Savior's always there. Can we double-click on that? Yeah. Because there's a lot of people who relate to what you just said, where their children are choosing not to serve missions or believe the church. How does what we talk about today relate to those circumstances?

SPEAKER_02 38:30

Whether we choose to believe in the role that the Savior has in this plan doesn't change his role. He's not the backup plan, he is the plan.

SPEAKER_01 38:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:43

And so whether you believe in religion or this some existential thing, or you don't believe in religion, or you don't believe in this faith tradition, or you don't believe you're agnostic, or you're whatever the case, you're, you know, there's a whole str different. I don't want to get into labels. Sure, sure, sure. Um but the reality is for me, and I can just speak for me, uh, I think about the alternatives. Charles Darwin and the other solutions that have been offered, and I don't find any hope in those. But when I think about the Savior and His role in Heavenly Father's plan for us, his children, again, eternal beings having a mortal experience by design, and I think about the hope that I can find anchored in him, everything feels better. My desire to show up differently today, to choose faith, to try to be a better version of me today, that's all we have to worry about today. And so, in the end, for those that maybe are choosing a different path, we have to recognize that that their journey may look different than ours, but the savior's willingness, the savior's reach is so much greater than ours, and that he'll always be there. So if we can just continue to bear witness, not of the things that is the scaffolding around the savior, but just take it to the savior. And I and I'm certain, I'm certain. I'm absolutely certain that he'll do his part when it's time.

SPEAKER_00 40:26

There's infinite hope. I know what that feels like, and and just want to emphasize to anyone listening who has someone that they love that is making choices that are going in a different direction, or maybe doesn't choose the thing that we think is, or even we the church has even said is like the right choice. At the end of the day, eternity is a long time. And our temples are a reminder that this life isn't over when we die. It says it in the handbook how we are living this life here and in the next. And it's through our covenants that we make that we can anchor them, that we can call upon ancestors to help make them free to serve our kids in their path. And as one friend says, if they choose the scenic route, that's what they need to do. That's your journey. That's their journey that is okay and not any less valid or important or valuable. And so as as you have a child go on a mission, I think another thing you said, Denny, I'm really impressed to share is that you talked about how your mission was so different than every other mission. Every missionary experience is so different than every other missionary experience. And so even if they choose something that seems like it's quote unquote on plan, which I don't believe in that, I believe a covenant path we sometimes confuse to be, you know, identical. We all experience the same covenants in different unique ways. But if you uh a missionary going on a mission is going to be a complete unique experience all on their own, and they need to find their own path to finding charity in the Savior on their own. And the Savior will meet them where they are and bring them along.

SPEAKER_02 41:56

Heavenly Father didn't send any of us here to fail. Yeah. He didn't. He knew it would be hard. We we volunteered. We had a choice. We can't remember that, but we did, and now we're here. But he doesn't want us to fail. He wants us to learn and experience and grow and transform and become. Now, uh, can I speak to just one principle that I think is so real? And this is very familiar to you and to anybody that has experienced difficulty because we all do.

How Christ Makes Unfair Things Right

SPEAKER_02 42:29

Um, and and uh I'll I I I won't apologize for taking it back to preach my gospel. We're focused on missionary. This is I I'm hoping you will, yes. But but I love there's a there's a there's a thing in here that's in chapter three under the plan of salvation, and I think it's a really powerful message. Elder Cook actually spoke to this in October of 2023 in his talk, Peaceable Followers of Christ. But I want to read you this one little section because I think that we have to recognize that there are things that are beyond our comp our comprehension. We want to assign value and ideals and understanding to things, and in reality, there will be things that are beyond our mortal mind's ability to comprehend. That's the reality. Things that just seem unfair or whatever the case may be. Well, here's the answer that I that I've found great hope in, and it's a beautiful, it's a beautiful promise blessing here. And this the title of the section is Jesus took upon himself our pains, afflictions, and infirmities. And it says this this is page 56, if anybody wants to go there. Um in his atoning sacrifice, Jesus Christ took upon himself our pains, afflictions, and infirmities. Because of this, he knows according to the flesh how to succor his people, according to their infirmities. He knows each one of us. And we're gonna have that experience to fall at his feet and to know. Him. He already knows us. The question is, in this process of mortality, if we come to know him better, he goes on to say, he invites, come unto me, and as we do, he gives us rest, hope, strength, perspective, and healing. I love that promise. Rest, hope, strength, perspective, and healing. We all need that at different times and different in different levels. Well, the next paragraph, and this is what I wanted to just throw out there for discussion, maybe. As we rely on Jesus Christ and his atonement, he can help us endure our trials, sicknesses, and pain. Okay, we know that. We can be filled with joy, peace, and consolation. I love that. Here's the part that I think is really worth pondering. All that is unfair about life can be made right through the atonement of Jesus Christ. All that is unfair, there is things that happen to people I can't reconcile. Unfair, horrific, hard. You talked about this, you know, concentration camp. There's a lot of things that happen to people, whether it's you know the failures of other people, abuse, just devastating things. There's illnesses, there's all kinds of things that can set us back and slow us down. And and oftentimes it can feel unfair. I love this promise that in the Savior all that is unfair will be made right.

SPEAKER_00 45:28

Yeah. It's so powerful because I think that we forget that the atonement isn't just about helping us overcome sin. No. It's about restoring on every level what is lost or broken. And so much in this mortality gets lost and broken along the way. You know, we're imperfect beings marrying imperfect beings or or not or single and have kids or no kids, or why we we there's these things that we want that we should, there are righteous desires that we have in our hearts that sometimes just aren't meant to be at this time or in this life. And yet the atonement is about fulfilling and completing, restoring all those things that have ever been missing in a way that we could never imagine.

SPEAKER_01 46:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:10

Well, I f and and look, this is I mean, we could end right here, frankly, and just say in the end, the Savior is the embodiment of hope. Right. Because there's this hope, this ideal that in him, because of him, through him, all that's unfair is going to be made right. What I can't understand or reconcile in this life that's happened to me or people that I love or even people that I don't know, it will be made right in the Savior Jesus Christ. And as I think about him, and I think about that experience, I love Third Nephi chapter 11, where you know you've got this more righteous part of the people that were spared that had heard this voice from heaven. It took them three times to understand and recognize that they finally look and then who's there? This promised Messiah. And then they one by one have a chance to go and to fall at his feet, one by one, and have an experience with him. And I think about for me, I I recognize that there's people that are in different places, but for me, the hope of having that experience, having all that seems unfair or maybe that I can't understand, made right in him, when I have this experience to connect with him in that way, as we all will, it's gonna feel to me, everything that we do is worth it because it builds up to that moment. Everything that we do in the temple, everything that we do, whether we're serving a mission or not serving a mission, everything about our discipleship is intended to help us feel more connected to him, drawing closer to him, relying on him and his infinite grace, so that through him we can return to live with our Heavenly Father, but we can't ever diminish the experience and the relationship that we'll have with him. And that's what this mortality is about. And that's what the gospel of Jesus Christ represents to me and the hope that comes from it.

Favorite Temples Iowa Lessons Testimony

SPEAKER_00 48:12

Danny, this has been such a wonderful episode. I can't thank you enough for the powerful way that you have helped bring the Spirit in through your service. You know, when someone has uh experienced a three-year mission in the way that you have, there's there's a spirit that comes with it. And and as I feel this, I I will conclude with some rapid fire questions. I just wanted to make sure I acknowledge and appreciate the time that you spent here. This has been so phenomenal. All right. So these rapid fire questions are intentionally meant to go all over the place. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 48:39

And I'm gonna bear my testimony somewhere at the end. I'll give you space. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:42

I'll give you space. Number one, favorite temple. Favorite temple in the world. It has to be Gilbert. It has to be Gilbert. It has to be Gilbert.

SPEAKER_02 48:49

I mean, I can see it from my kitchen window. Uh without getting into too many details, we had a chance to be part of the groundbreaking experience and was able to help with, you know, just a lot of things along the way and and the dedication and and but not just because of that, but because of the proximity that it gives us and the and what we feel there. Now, a very close second is going to be the Nauvoo Temple.

SPEAKER_00 49:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 49:17

Which was in our mission. It was our it was the only temple in our mission. So we had an opportunity to be there every transfer with the missionaries, and we loved it. And there's something beautifully sacred about every temple. But I would say right there, one and two, Gilbert and Nauvoo.

SPEAKER_00 49:32

I love that. Okay. Um what's something unique about Iowa? Just kind of as a someone who lived there, that was something unique that you miss about that part of the world.

SPEAKER_02 49:40

Oh man, there's so many fun facts about Iowa. Um Iowa, there's 26 and a half million pigs. Okay. Um more corn is grown in the state of Iowa than any other state, and so that probably describes why there's a lot of livestock there, because one of the largest consumers of the corn that grows so beautifully from the Rolling Hills are the livestock and animals. And so we loved the rolling hills, we loved the seasons, we loved the people. Um, there are so many wonderful people in Iowa. Our mission was a good part of Iowa and then western and central Illinois, and we met some beautiful people. I I will tell you, um, we had across our mission almost 30 branches. Wow. And what I really came to, and I can bear witness of this, is the power of the one. In every one of those branches, you had two or three or four anchoring families that said, This is where we are, this is where the Lord has planted us, and we're and and they would just drive the Lord's work in beautiful ways. And it would look different maybe than a ward in Utah or Gilbert, Arizona. But the work of salvation and exaltation was just as powerful. And we and we saw that over and over again in these little branches where it was going and happening because people love the Savior. Love that.

SPEAKER_00 51:02

You have uh multiple nephews going through the temple next week, yes. Um what would you want them to know about what we talked about today? Is there anything specific as you think about those wonderful family members that you love? Is there anything that you would want them to know as they go into their temple for their first temple experience?

SPEAKER_02 51:20

Oh, that's such a great question, Will. I um I think that it's over time the presentation of the endowment has been adjusted. Not the not the core doctrine, not the covenants that we participate in, um, but the presentation itself. And I would just say look for the savior. It's a lot easier to do now. Sure. Um the imagery, the music, um just all of the elements that are so beautiful and and sacred. Um so just look for the savior. There's going to be a lot of things that that can maybe take your eye off the ball, if you will. Yeah. The savior is the center. If you can look for him and how, like the people in the temple of Karnak 4,500 years ago, um, or in that temple in Guatemala or in Japan, these these things that they were doing that were intended to represent and honor feelings of their hearts, promises they were willing to make, covenants, we would call them, that were moving them closer to Heavenly Father. If we look for the Savior in that process in the temple, you're gonna you'll see something different. And I and for those of us that have been able to go more and more over the years as we get in different seasons, I I just love looking for the savior and and I find him. And the Spirit will whisper things to me, sometimes connected to something that I've heard, but often just connected to something else that I need instruction on at that time. And so look for the Savior and everything else will take care of itself.

SPEAKER_00 53:01

Okay. Last question before we we f give you time to bear testimony. Um I I I said this before we hit record, but your father is someone who I've never met, but have a deep love and appreciation for, which for me is a very unique experience because um he's not famous in the sense that like he's a old president of the United States. You know, usually you can connect to people who have passed on that you've never met because of that, but his impact is so profound that I have a love and respect for your father. What is it about your dad what's something unique to you in your connection with your father that helped you come to Christ?

SPEAKER_02 53:39

That's a powerful question. Um, you know, my dad, it's been 17 years since he passed away, and we all are gonna lose people that we love, so I'm not I'm not unique in that regard. But I love seeing the living embodiment of him in my siblings in different ways. Each of them manifest him and his goodness. But I think if I were to try to sum it up, it was that, and and we're remembering, so he passed away, he was 62. I'm looking at him after 60 after a 62-year journey on the planet. He'd been traveling for a while and and learning and growing and transforming and becoming. But the thing that I had felt from him abundantly and witnessed and see in my siblings now is his charitable heart. He always saw the best in people. And, you know, he would see some person on the street, and he had he crossed paths with a lot of you use the word famous, influential, famous people. He, you know, he had a lot of experiences that way. He treated everybody the same. And I think that the thing that I learned from him, and I'm still trying to emulate and embody, is seeing people in the way that Heavenly Father sees them, children of a loving Heavenly Father, who sees us as imperfect, but striving to do our best. And he would give people the benefit of the doubt. And I think that's rooted in charity, which is the pure love of Christ. And so to me, as I consider what I can learn from him and continue to try to improve in my own life, it's just back to Elder Bednar. It's how can I have more charity in my life? Not just charitable behavior or actions, but possessing it in a way that it becomes who I am. So that's my plight. Yeah. I have a lot of ways to go. We all are trying to figure it out. But uh I'd love to just bear my witness that God lives, that he's omniscient and omnipresent, those are big words. He's infinite, yet somehow he intimately knows me and you and every one of his children beyond my comprehension. The fact that the one person that's ever been on the earth that's perfect, the only perfect performance, as President Holland called it, the Savior is willing to do what he did for me and for you and all of his brothers and sisters. That's the plan. To know that Heavenly Father loves us, that he's aware of us, that he's given us the way back to him, that the Savior is at the very heart of that plan, that we have living prophets and apostles on the earth that lead the work, imperfect as they are, yet incredibly consecrated, dedicated, striving disciples of Jesus Christ, leading out to help us in our journey back to our Heavenly Father. I'm grateful for scriptures that guide us, that direct us for the Book of Mormon that's been brought to the earth, translated in unconventional ways, yet given to us to find connection and anchoring in the Savior. And all of these things, if if I sum it up, it's just the power of hope. And I just leave that witness with you, Will, that uh Heavenly Father's in the details. He wants us to be hopeful, even in the difficult times. He wants us to be anchored in the Savior, that in him and through him and because of him, we can become the person that Heavenly Father wants us to become. And that's my witness in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.

SPEAKER_00 57:39

Amen. Danny, thank you so much for being on the show today. Sure appreciate you. Glad to be here. And thank you always, everyone, for tuning into this very special episode. And just for those of you who are parents of missionaries getting prepared to leave or who have missionaries out in the field who are coming home, just to remind you, as I'm reminding myself, how important our purpose is, and then our purpose is anchored in love and charity. And so I hope and pray that you will find peace, and as we all remember, that the Savior walks with us as we try imperfectly to become more like him each day. Until next

Share With One Person Today

SPEAKER_00 58:13

time. July is missionary month on Temple Bound. Think of one person who needs this: a missionary in the field, someone packing for the MTC, or a parent watching their child get ready to go or come home. Go ahead and send them this episode, because one listener, one sharer, one missionary drawn is a little bit closer to Christ. Temple Bound is brought to you by the Light on a Hill Foundation, a nonprofit aimed at building and strengthening families across the globe. Produced by Heather Humphreys, with show notes and social media managed by Isabel Dizon and Kimberly Simbafon. Wardrobe by Anne Collar. These views and opinions expressed by the host and guests are on their own and do not necessarily reflect those of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints. Thank you for joining us today as we continue learning, growing, and striving to bind our lives closer to Savior. Until next time.